Hi to all.
I have a Catalina 36, 1985, hull #473.
Ex-owner of the boat bought a new Westerbeke engine and gearbox at 2006.
I own the boat for two seasons and l ought to repair the gearbox twice.
The gearbox is Hurth HBW50 and the engine is M25XPB
I looked at the manual of the gearbox. There is surprise: the gearbox is for maximum input of 21hp. And this value is for 4cylinders. We should calculate a vibration or knock factor 0,25 for every cylinder below 4cyl. 25XPB is 3clynd. and 26hp.
My engine has an ID plate that states HBW50, and it seems original.
I sent a mail to Universal and Westerbeke.
Westerbeke corp. Replied and wrote that my ID plate is wrong, and the HBW50 is an very old model and they didnt put it on 25XPB.
At second mail, they wrote that the invoice is 25xpb+ZF5 gearbox and sent me a copy of their invoice.
I looked at the Turkish distributors invoice to the ex-owner. It ıs also 25xpb+ZF5.
I called ex-owner, asked what happened.. He said he didnt change gearbox.
Sure, the Westerbeke and nobody else may not believe me and ex-owner.
I asked Westerbeke corp, who can write the text on the engine ID?
They replied me:
"Please find attached the HBW50's brochure and be careful, pay attention for leisure craft.."
As conclusion:
What can l do now?
Technical;
I should replace my gearbox with a proper one for 26hp.
But who changed my gearbox?
If some kind of repairmen changed the gearbox without owners permission than, who wrote very carefully "HBW50" on my M25XPB engine?
Could ID plate be stolen/fake etc also?
I will load pictures of ID plate, engine, gearbox, ınvoices of Westerbeke and Turkish distrubitor DAS Otomotiv Ltd. etc.
I am really upset.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
[quote=Molto Cattiva]... Ex-owner of the boat bought a new Westerbeke engine and gearbox at 2006. ....
I called ex-owner, asked what happened.. He said he didnt change gearbox....
[/quote]
Its a little confusing: You say the ex-owner changed both the engine and gearbox, but then you later state that the ex-owner says he didn't
The latter would make more sense, logically. Since a C36 of your boat's vintage (like mine) came originally with an M25 (21hp) engine, it would have had the HBW50 transmission originally, I presume. Thus, the later mismatch if the replacement engine was an upgrade to the M25XPB.
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
http://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/marine_diesel_direct/Universal/index.ph...
http://www.westerbeke.com/Overview/M-25XPB/5399ada2daf73a26740bf67d
http://www.bukh-bremen.de/files/346/upload/Hersteller/ZF/Reparaturanleit...
After looking at these links it would appear you have the HBW50 and according to the chart is now a ZF5M Both appear to be suitable for for 26HP which the M25XPB is rated at.I suspect the previous owner purchased the setup complete, which is why he claims to not have changed it.
I would expect the nameplate on the engine is from the manufacturer and that the HBW50 and ZF5M for the most part interchangeable. Perhaps you can describe what your issue with the transmission was and what was done to repair it may give someone insight to what your difficulty is?
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine
Hi,
I am wrong at gearbox type.
It is not HBW50.
It is a ZF5M
I apologise bothering the forum people for this mistake.
But;
Westerbeke Corp. did not reply my ID plate problem! Who wrote HBW50 to my ID plate? Who will apologise for this?
The ex-owner stated that he changed as a complete set at 2006. After that he didnt change anyting. My English typing mistake caused Cachere misunderstand.
Bearings are broken twice at my ZF5M.
I do not have a brochure/owners manual for ZF5M
But "my owners manual of HBW50" says that 300ml ATF. :) And the first season we cruised @2500rpm, most of our cruises.
I didnt get the detailed specs for ZF5M yet, l am on a project to put an additional charge alternator to my 25XPB. :) l also have connecting issues to the forum via my notebook. I will write, put pictures of the story and let you to know the result soon.
I've read a brochure for ZF25M states that it is suitable for a "leisure boat -that means a max cruise of 300h/year.@max~27hp"
I live at Istanbul, which is 450nm to Mediterranean Sea. We have two kids, they do not want to wait for sailing conditions -neither l.-
Our engine is running aprx.%90 of our cruises.
Thanks for help / comments.
SM-G800HQ cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi
Hello,
According to the M25XPB parts book, the transmission is listed as a Hurth HBW50. Please refer to the following web site http://www.absolutelyeverythingabout.com/boats/zf-friedrichshafen-ag/ and you will see that ZF Marine bought Hurth in 1995 and continued to produce the HBW line of transmissions under the ZF model number.
I suspect that your engine was built around the time that ZF bought Hurth. Universal/Westerbeke likely made up the data plate just before the renamed ZF transmissions were introduced.
So to make a long story short, you have a Hurth HBW50 transmission with a ZF5 label. These transmissions are identical.
Hope this helps
Tom & Janis Grover
C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON
Manual
http://www.bukh-bremen.de/files/346/upload/Hersteller/ZF/Reparaturanleit...
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine
Can any member comment on the note that warns about the schock factor to reduce the engine power 1,15; for 3 cylinder engine?
If we do believe in this gearbox is different (powerfull) than Hurth HBW50 -which is suitable for up to ~21hp(before 1,15 schock factor)- than the result is also not good..
This gearbox is for up to: 27hp / 1,15 schock factor reducement (Westerbeke-Universal 25XPB is 3 cylndrs) => ~23hp.
(For a Pleasure Craft which means max. cruise time of a 300hours/year. And not for contunius use. I do not understand these type of restrictions also.)
Am I wrong at my calculation?
Find below "my" Hurth HBW50's owner's manual :
If the HBW50 and ZF5M is identical or same!
Please someone helps me to understand and process the Westerbeke's gearbox procedure!
Only am l the one that thinks there is a problem?
The torque capacity of the clutch is ex-
actly rated, preventing shock loads from
exceeding a predetermined value to en-
sure maximum protection of the engine
and thus providing the effect of a safety
clutch.
Ozkan, the paragraph above is out of the manual that I listed in earlier threads. I believe the shock factor is the transmission is rated to "slip" should the torque exceed 15 times it's rated torque for a 3 cylinder engine, thus protecting the engine. (I could be wrong)
I did not find anything on continuous duty, but my understanding of that would be if it ran 24/7 continuously it may fail. Reason probably small gearbox, gears would generate extreme heat. I going by I used to sell a right angle machine tool head that was good for intermittent use but would seize if run continuously. Some companies overcame this by running coolant through their heads.
To answer your question the Hurth transmission is used by many manufactures and for the most part are trouble free. I had a Catalina 30 which had the 3 cylinder engine that you have and I never had an issue over the 18 years that I had owned the boat. My 36 has the four cylinder engine and the boat is 26 years old and has the original transmission. I like most more than likely only put about 100 hours on the engine within the season and sometimes I think it is used more at a mooring charging batteries or heating water than in propelling the boat, so I am way under the 300 hours they are suggesting.
I'll keep reading to see if there is more to this than meets the eye. I'm sure your problem can be solved once we understand the possible cause.
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine