our '93 has a Maxwell 500 that we put a chain gypsy on (reom Maxwell) and it only fits 1/4" HT as well, is this too small of chain? Anyone know of 1/4" HT breaking?
Russ

I can't give you any concrete numbers or independent advice at this point.

However, just taking your own research at face value that the 1/4" chain has a SWL of 2,600 lbs, that is obviously considerably less than the 5,000 lb SWL you claim to want for 60 kts of wind and wave.

It is only my opinion, but I don't think I would feel comfortable with just 1/4" chain in extreme conditions. I prefer the extra weight as well as the strength of the 5/16".

Having said that, how many anchoring situations would let your anchor remain set under that kind of load?

Just a quick FYI. If anyone is looking for a Maxwell rope only winch I have our original one for sale or make a offer. Going to install a Maxwell VW winch horizontally.

Good for you that you can haul that chain and anchor. I can do it, too, but it is not my preference.

As a quick aside, I just posted a thread about my Maxwell Freedom 800 gearbox failing. Here's the situation; isn't it typical for things to fail at really bad time?

We were in a bayou with docks on one side of the channel and heavy mangrove trees lining the other side. We dropped the anchor 25 ft from the dock and reversed almost 200 ft to the mangroves where we stern tied (as is the local custom). The long scope was necessary due to the soupy mud bottom and poor initial holding capability, along with the 20 kt winds forecast.

When we went to leave, the wind was 10 blowing directly toward the $1.5 million+ yacht now lying alongside the dock, and just 10 ft from our anchor. Normally, the admiral is at the helm, but I really feared for her ability to stay clear of the yacht to leeward. So, I took the helm and asked her to haul the chain. It was covered in the worst smelly, sticky mud you can imagine and she was not a happy camper. Kudos to her for doing it without more than a bad facial expression.

After she got it as far as she could, we quickly traded places so I could haul until it was short-scoped. Then I had her drag the anchor away from the yacht so we could proceed with more breathing room.

We anchor is nice clean sand most of the time, but the one time the windlass failed was in yucky mud and in a precarious situation. That's boating for ya'.

I was going to suggest possibly using the windlass for a primary rode consisting of the 1/4" chain and 1/2" nylon (I believe that's what the Freedom 500 fits) and a suitable anchor. Decide for yourself under what situations you will be content with the primary tackle deployed and take advantage of the convenience at those times.

Then, have a storm anchor and rode (suitable length of 5/16" chain and 5/8" nylon) and keep it in the divided anchor locker. The problem is that stowing a storm anchor on the bow other than on the main roller is not likely an easy task.

In our case, the primary tackle (which is also our storm tackle) is a 45 lb Delta with 80 ft of 5/16" chain and then 5/8" nylon, which uses the windlass and primary bow roller. The secondary anchor is a Fortress (lightweight danforth style) stowed on the bow pulpit with 20 ft of chain and 5/8" nylon in the divided anchor locker.

I agree that I would not want to trade peace of mind for convenience. Good luck.

[QUOTE=bstreet;3384]

1. Plus the 1/4" chain limits the size of shackle you can put on and that looks like it will be the weakest link.

2. We anchor out a lot, we are rarely at a dock, so I like beefy, reliable ground tackle. I was hoping to hear other people's experiences with what they're doing with chain. From searching this forum I seem to see 5/16" mentioned most often. But perhaps in reality 1/4" is quite capable of holding in 60 knots winds on a 36. Anybody?[/QUOTE]

Bud,

1. Yes, that's true. See our discussion about anchoring systems here, Anchor Tables: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html[/url] Reply #6 has the tables.

2. One of our good friends, Steve Dolling & his family, sailed down the coast from Vancouver, BC and is now past Baja, in Banderas Bay. Here's his report on anchor systems, please read especially Reply #1: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html[/url]

We have a Rocna 10 (22#) on about 35 feet of 1/4" chain with 1/2" rode. I deliberately sized our system for "ONLY" 42 knots of wind, but by using the tables for a slightly larger boat, and back checking the loads, I'm good on our boat for 60 knots, based on the "holding power" of the components I selected and installed.

I've spent many hours typing in the phrase "anchoring system" because, as you've deduced, it all has to work together. Most people don't get it, like, for instance, Reply #18 on page 2 of the link above.

One of the concepts for you to consider would be this: use a "daily" anchoring SYSTEM that's light and manageable; then have a storm system ready to go. That's what I did, but I have an unusual luxury where we sail here, as does Steve Frost and others: we simply don't have the afternoon and evening thunderstorms that most of the rest of the world has. Our weather is so darned predictable that I felt quite comfortable essentially "undersizing" our anchoring SYSTEM because we would not be exposed to 60 or more knot winds where and WHEN we anchor.

I know, someone's gonna say "Don't say never" but I've been doing this for 30 years, and know our "backyard."

I kept the "parts" as small as I could, 'cuz I don't have a windlass, most likely never will, and have a back that still works:rolleyes:. You seem to understand anchor retrieval techniques, which do NOT include needing any heavy duty manpower for success.

However, if I ever moved away from here, or did an extended trip "outside" either up or down the coast, I WOULD IMMEDIATELY go and buy a bigger anchor, like Steve Dolling's SYSTEM. I would also check the referenced tables to see if I really needed to upsize the rode and chain - maybe not if you do the research with the referenced tables.

Ron Hill, our C34 guru from back east on the Chesapeake, has been running his tidy little ship since 1988, and his suggestions on anchoring systems work for pretty much all the rest of the country.

With a little research, and the tables I've provided, you may be pleasantly surprised at what components you can put together that will work for you on a daily basis and then for a situation that would require a stronger "rig".

Rocna's website has some very good information, too.

I agree with Duane's suggestions and approach. Only thing is the storm anchor need not be kept ready to go, nor on the bow roller either.

[QUOTE=stu jackson c34;3401]I agree with Duane's suggestions and approach. Only thing is the storm anchor need not be kept ready to go, nor on the bow roller either.[/QUOTE]

Hi, Stu. Great info, as usual. I understand you taking exception to having a "storm" anchor and rode kept on the bow. If it were truly a "storm only" anchor, used sparingly, then keeping the weight low and more amidships is a much better solution.

I was leaning more toward my own situation and tendencies where perhaps half the time or more I would want the heavier tackle as opposed to the primary 1/4 chain and 1/2 nylon we are speaking of. That is because of the frequency with which we get nasty squalls popping up out of nowhere (0200 seems to be a polular time, though ;-) ). In those cases, I would elect to use my heavier tackle and I know myself - if it is hard to do, I will have a tendency to not do it. That is why I try hard to make certain things easy to do, so I will not be inclined to choose the easier option.

I agree, Duane, it's not necessarily so much the "easier" option, in fact not at all.

IF you have weather that dictates the "normal" use of the heavier gear, then by all means make that your regular rig.

I was never "basically" proposing two rigs and only one for regular use. All I'm trying to point as, as you have too, is that if the engineering planning is done, then a standard ("use it daily") rig could well be much smaller and just as safe as an over sized rig without any engineering being applied. If, then, a storm rig is much beefier, then it may not need to live on the pointy end.

If, however, the difference between the "daily" rig and the storm rig isn't much because of the basic DESIGN CRITERIA for that o'dark thirty anticipated condition, then there's not too much of a choice left is there? That's what results in most C34 and C36 skippers (outside of San Francisco Bay and some right here in it) choosing 35# anchors and 1/4" or 5/16" chain with 1/2" or 5/8" rode. It's pretty much that simple.

I'm glad I don't have to raise a 35# anchor by hand regularly and we anchor out a lot, but certainly would do so if conditions required it. But I DO live here and will take advantage of every pound I can get!:D

That's also my concern in my links about the incredibly weird assortment of mismatched parts that we see on docks all the time.

And just to clarify or summarize my own system design criteria: 42 knots of wind; that's it. We do not have daily thunderstorms that would require me to have a heavier daily anchor.; our weather here is so relatively benign, and I can choose to NOT go out and anchor when there are higher winds forecast. If I lived anywhere else, there would be different design criteria, i.e., heavier winds.

Just some more info here for splicing instead of a shackle
[URL="http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html"]http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html[/URL]

Yes, there was plenty of good info presented in this thread and much food for thought.

The prudent skipper will make his or her choice based on individual circumstances.

Cheers!