first time attempt at maintenance

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blair
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first time attempt at maintenance

I'm gonna take a shot at changing fluids on my boat. Last time it was done by a professional in about an hour for around $500 i think.
I'm gonna look at my owner's manuals, and here, and i should be able to get enough information to do this myself.
Not sure what needs to be done, but at the very least, engine and tranny oil, and fuel filter.

I was thinking about buying one of those electric powered oil removing pump set ups. I saw one from West Marine on Craigslist for around $70.
What do most people use to suck the oil out?

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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Channel Islander
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Hi Blair,

Someone with an M35 will no doubt chime in, but on the M25 (in the older boats) the oil pan drain plug is accessible under the engine and you can just drain the oil into a trash bag. You can never get all the nasty dirty stuff at the bottom of the engine with a pump.

If you do use a pump make sure the engine is good and warm to thin the oil. 

Many of the mechanics I see use hand pumps for small engines, maybe no need to buy a powered one.

[Also wanted to explain that posts are still delayed, legacy of the Summer of Spam. Sorry for the inconvenience, we should have that restriction lifted soon.]

Thanks

Nick

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

ScottishDuncan
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Hi
I work at West Marine. Be wary of the pumps which are built into the lid of what looks like a plastic bucket. They are unstable when empty due to the offset weight of the electric pump from the center line of the bucket...ie it falls over unless full. Not much good when you are beginning the pump out process.

Duncan McNeill
1984 Catalina 36 #178
standard rig fin keel M25
Channel Islands

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newguy
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Well, you should go from $500 to $30.  It takes all of 30 minutes.  I use a gallon of 15W40 Rotella, a Fram PH-3593-A, and a $6 (Harbor Freight 66418) hand pump connected to the drain hose.  After warming the engine and removing the threaded cap from the drain hose, I insert the drain hose directly into the intake port of the pump and stick the output port of the pump into the top of a 1-gallon jug.  After all the oil is out, I take a plastic trash bag and drop the pump into it, remove the drain hose from the pump, and reinstall the threaded cap onto the drain hose.  You can either throw away the pump or take it home and stick it in the sink and pump some warm water and dishwashing liquid through it.

Next you would change the spin-on oil filter.  Usually a bit more of a mess.  Invest in an oil filter band-type wrench for small filters (​such as:  http://www.awdirect.com/swivel-oil-filter-wrench-for-2-7-8-to-3-1-4-dia-...).  This same filter wrench also fits the spin-on fuel filter.  Place lots of paper towels or a Pamper under the filter and have a plastic trash bag ready.  After loosing with the wrench enough to hand turn, you can minimize the mess by placing a large freezer bag around the filter so that it extends as much as possible over the bottom portion of the filter mating flange.  After unscrewing, try to keep the threaded end "up" as much as possible as the filter will still contain some oil.  Clean the flange, apply a bit of clean oil to the new filter gasket, and then spin-on.  Hand tighten only!

Using a funnel, pour the gallon of oil in, crank up and run for a minute, shut down and check for leaks and your dipstick level.  Here's a good link:
https://www.catalina36.org/members/technical/maintenance/oil-and-filter-...

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

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Phil L
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Posts: 104

[quote=ScottishDuncan]Hi
I work at West Marine. Be wary of the pumps which are built into the lid of what looks like a plastic bucket. They are unstable when empty due to the offset weight of the electric pump from the center line of the bucket...ie it falls over unless full. Not much good when you are beginning the pump out process.[/quote]

Not to go off topic, but Duncan, do you work at the WM on Channel Islands Blvd,?  I was just there last week (and am there WAY too often).  I'll look for you next time I'm in.  Having a fellow C36er at WM may help in knowing what to use and what not to!

Phil L 
Southern Cross
Channel Islands, CA
C36MKI #400

pierview
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Posts: 599

Re Duncan's comment about the pump/bucket being unstable, he's right. What I do is keep the bucket in a box I saved from 6 gals of anti-freeze when I winterized whenever I use and store the pump. This keeps it stable and I have enough room to keep a sheet, for under everything when I work, a small 1 gal fuel container (may be a 2 gal) to fill with fuel to refill the filters and a plastic nozzle I screw onto the oil bottles to prevent spillage all in one place. Works fine and I prefer that to the flat model with the pickup tube in clips around the tank. The clips never hold the tube correctly ( have both).

When changing the filters don't forget the water separator filter oo.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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MitchMan406
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These guys have pretty well covered it, but here's a tip.

While you're messing with the oil change, use your pump to suck out the ATF from your transmission fill-and-check opening on top of the tranny. I think the dipstick bolt head uses a 17mm wrench.   

On my 1986 model C36, the Universal M25 is mated to the Hurth HPW50

with a capacity of 0.3 ltrs. of ATF transmission fluid.

Be aware that you check the fluid level WITHOUT screwing in the dipstick.

I'll include a pic of the pump I use: Jabsco Flat Tank Oil Changer System, Model# 17860-1012

Good luck!

Mitch

1986 Catalina 36 MKI 
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
 

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William Miller
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I have found little webber tin pans that hold abut 20 0z and fit under the transmission so I can drain everything out of it

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

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blair
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Posts: 250

It appears i should now have enough info to attempt these tasks. Gonna try this weekend.

One last question though, where exactly is the engine?

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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Channel Islander
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[quote=blair]One last question though, where exactly is the engine?[/quote]

I remember when my Mum and the neighbor's wife both had new VW Beetles. I'm talking 1960s. One day Mum couldn't start the car. The neighbor lady was right there, gossipy pair they were, so she says, "have a look under the bonnet."

Mum lifts the hood and exclaims "Blimey, no wonder it won't start, someone's nicked the engine!" To which the neighbor lady replies calmly, "Don't you worry love, I've got a spare one in the boot."

 

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

ScottishDuncan
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Yep I work at West Marine Channel Islands. It is part time but I am there about 4 days a week. I also fix/repair sailboats as a business.
 

Duncan McNeill
1984 Catalina 36 #178
standard rig fin keel M25
Channel Islands

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plebel
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I was getting ready to buy an expensive oil extraction pump.  Then I found out that our local Discount Marine shop rented a very nice heavy duty one for $4 a day.

And then they keep the messy thing the other 363 days that I'm not using it ;-)

Worth checking around.

Paul

Paul & Ann   -   
"Freestyle"   -   
1985 C36 #454   -   
North Puget Sound, WA

dpower
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Posts: 237
I have tried various systems and have settled on the Oil Boy. With it, you create a vacuum in the 5 quart container and then it removes the oil. I can then take the container to our Marian oil disposal site. Whenever I change the oil I change the transmission fluid,using the same system. There is enough room in the container.

David S. Power
Two If By Sea #1687
Burnt Store Marina
Punta Gorda, FL

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Stevenjones
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I too endorse the Oil Boy. Simple, always works, nothing complicated to break. I even use it to suck out old gas out of my chainsaw, and power washer! 
Seems they may be discontinued, but here is what they look like, and others similar in design are readily available.
http://www.amazon.com/Tempo-Oil-Boy-Fluid-Extractor/product-reviews/B000...

Steven Jones
Maléna  C36   2164
Seal Beach, CA 
 

Steven Jones

C36/375IA FaceBook group administrator

C36/375IA Jib Sheet Editor 2012

Seal Beach, CA, USA
C36 #2164 Maléna  2003 Mk-II SRig/FullK,  Long Beach, CA

stevenjones21@gmail.com

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LCBrandt
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I've set aside March as my month for preparation for the Inside Passage trip, April to relocate the boat to Puget Sound, and mid-May to push back on my trip to Alaska. *IF* I remember to do it...I will try to video my annual engine maintenance (oil, filters, belt, impeller, HE zinc, etc) and put it on YouTube. I'll put a link here on C36IA, of course.

I still have a couple articles to write as promised: 1) Rebedding a chainplate, and 2) replacing the furler drum. I have all the photography for these but too many things on the To-Do list at the moment. Sorry.
 

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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blair
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Ok, so I'm finally getting around to this, and already have a problem. I bought the cheap harbor freight tools pump and the intake hose just collapses when I pump it.
Whats wrong with this picture?

Edit: Drain hose directly in to intake port.
         Yep, that did it.

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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newguy
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All good Blair?

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

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LCBrandt
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Apologies to Blair and others expecting me to meet my commitment to video the annual preventive maintenance on my boat. I just spent three days trying to do this, without a camera person, and all the attempt did was slow me down. It's taken almost three days to do what I would ordinarily do in less than a day AND I got crappy video. Using a min-tripod sometimes the camera would fall over mid-activity; hand holding it's so shaky that it's useless to edit.

Next year, I will have to get a volunteer to be the camera person.

In the meantime my next post may serve as a checklist for this periodic/annual maintenance check.

 

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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LCBrandt
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When I do the annual preventive maintenance on High Flight I take it by system, not beginning the next system until I'm through with the present one. Here's the sequence I used over the last three days. Note this is on a 2002 Catalina 36 Mk II, s/n 2109.

1. Open the engine compartment fore and aft, get all-round access, have tools and replacement parts (fuel and oil filters, zinc, Racor, new belt, new impeller, oil, ATF fluid) at hand.

2. Fuel system:

  • Fuel shutoff valve OFF at fuel tank, aluminum pan under the Racor. Diaper in engine sump well. Extra diapers at hand.
  • Note whether there is any water visible in the bottom of the sediment bowl. Drain the Racor and dispose of fuel. Remove Racor with sediment bowl attached. Disassemble Racor/sediment bowl, clean bowl, lube new O-ring with a tiny amount of oil, install O-ring. Assemble sediment bowl to new Racor (an R15T is what I use), lube gasket with a tiny amount of oil, replace Racor assembly in its mount, hand tighten.
  • Place aluminum catchment under engine fuel filter.
  • Be prepared for fuel to drain from filter as it is loosened...a LOT will come out. 
  • Lube gasket of new filter with a tiny amount of oil and install, and tighten hand tight.
  • Turn fuel valve ON at the fuel tank.
  • Turn engine key, fuel pump should run until pressurized.
  • Attempt to start engine...mine starts after one or two cranking revs. ALWAYS when starting the engine check for cooling water. Always! Check all OK. Now you're done with the fuel system. I run my engine for 10 or 15 minutes to cheeck the fuel system and to warm the oil. OK, engine OFF.

3. Transmission

  • Remove transmission dipstick, wipe, carefully set dipstick in hole WITHOUT threading. Remove to view fluid level. All OK, so reinstall dipstick and thread snug with a wrench.

4. Packing gland

  • Now is the time to adjust packing gland, if needed. This was my first time adjusting after installing new teflon packing a couple years ago. It took about 2 flats.

5. Raw water cooling system

  • Close the raw water seacock.
  • Open the strainer and clean it out. Replace lid and secure.
  • Remove heat exchanger zinc, check condition. Mine was fine, as I have been in fresh water since installed. If a new zinc to be installed HACKSAW IT to 1" zinc length, otherwise the too long zinc will either damage the heat exchanger core or crumble your new zinc. If the old zinc was almost gone, then remove the HX end cap and feel for zinc crumbs with your finger. Extract crumbs if any are in there.
  • Remove the inboard (top) hose on the Sherwood impeller body. I use a large screwdriver to lever it off the bib. Loosen the top and bottom screws on the alternator mount to allow the alternator to move, letting the belt free. Remove three screws holding the impeller housing body. REMEMBER the clocking of the keyway! Clean the impeller, lightly lube with silicon grease, lube O-ring and let the silicon grease hold it in the groove. Install the new gasket on the AFT side of the backing plate, NOT on the side where the impeller goes. Place the new belt inside the impeller loop, and carefully install the impeller housing, making SURE (a) the gasket is on the AFT side of the backing plate, (b) the key is properly in the keyway and in the impeller slot, and (c) the O-ring is still in its groove. Today I tried a new method to do this critical step: Lying down and looking up into the gap, with a small screwdriver I 'poked' the key properly into its keyway and into the impeller slot, and I 'helped' the O-ring into its groove. Reinstall the three screws. Clean the belt pulleys and place the belt in them. Using a large screwdriver lever the alternator to achieve about 1" 'press' on the long side of the belt, and tighten the two alternator screws.
  • Open the seacock.
  • Start the engine and carefully WATCH the exhaust (from another dock, ideally) t make sure the water is spouting out on a normal regular basis. IF water isn't coming out of the exhaust, or if it's spewing only about once a minute something is WRONG. Shut down and find out where your work got derailed.

6. Closed cooling system. Check the coolant level in the overflow reservoir in the cockpit locker. Today I needed to add about a cup of 50/50 antifreeze premix.

7. Oil

  • With a warm (NOT HOT) engine, use a slurper to extract oil from the engine via the remote drain hose. Then I drill a small hole in the bottom of the oil filter to let more trapped oil free to drain into a pan. Be patient, the more patient, the cleaner your work will be. Place paper towels and diapers beneath the filter, loosen it and spin it off. Dispose of it properly (it's hazmat). Lightly lube the new filter's gasket, and spin it on, hand tighten. replace remote drain hose. Add two and a half quarts of oil, and then start the engine. Let run for a couple minutes, then OFF. Let set for a few minutes, then check the dipstick level. Keep adding oil until the proper mark on the dipstick. Install dipstick, replace oil cap. 

8. General 

  • Overall inspection for leaks, points where hoses can abrade, potential failure points. Using small sockets and screwdrivers check all hose clamps for tightness. Check all 8 engine mount lag screws for tightness. Wipe clean.
  • Replace engine covers fore and aft. Enter itemized work description into maintenance log.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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TomSoko
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Larry,
Thanks for sharing. Excellent write-up.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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blair
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Nick, yep, all is good.

Once I re read your post about connecting the drain hose directly to the pump intake port, it worked like a charm. 
Thanks again for that tip.

Fuel filters next.

 

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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newguy
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Blair,

There's some variability between model years.  Since we both have the same model year, here's my procedure.  All of my extra steps here are important to reduce engine cranking time anytime the fuel filters are changed.  You should have a few cups of clean diesel handy before you begin.

  • For the RACOR, follow Larry's procedure, except open or remove the outlet vent plug on the filter body to facilitate draining the bowl.  You'll need this loosened for the next procedure anyway.  Like Larry mentions, use the -T (or -P) filter elements.
  • After changing the RACOR, open the tank petcock and exercise the built-in primer pump located on the top of the filter body until fuel comes out of the filter body outlet vent, then replace the vent plug.  This pre-fills the RACOR filter and bowl.
  • For the engine spin-on filter, again use Larry's procedure, but pre-fill the new filter to just below the top with clean diesel before screwing it on.  This filter gets hand tightened just like the oil filter - pretty much as tight as you can get it with one hand.
  • Unless owner modified, our engines only run the lift pump when there's oil pressure or the key is in the preheat position (full clockwise against the spring).  So, before trying to start the engine, rotate switch to the preheat position for 10 seconds, release; wait 10 seconds; repeat 2 more times.  This is bleeding the small amount of air that got introduced if the procedures here were followed, while avoiding overheating of the glow plugs.
  • Now try an engine start.  If it does not start within 5 seconds of cranking, do the bleed procedure above once again.  After starting, let it fast idle for 10 minutes before trusting,  Make sure water is being pumped out of the exhaust.  Engine start 101.

RACOR 200R Manual:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marlow-hunter.com%2Fexport%2FVendor-Manuals%2FRacor%2520200RMAM.pdf&ei=Sj0MVZmMF8iryAS434D4DA&usg=AFQjCNFw_rYCGWBhZDnv9Dsx3XzKjKfT7g&bvm=bv.88528373,d.aWw

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

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