I am running into plumbing issues trying to plumb the macerator pump into the new 1.5" seacock I put in, not much room to work with. I am considering a Y Valve, I put the 1.5" seacock in case I wanted to do that some time in future.
But I recall I looked at that last fall and decided it would be difficult to run a 2nd 1.5" line from the head to the 1.5" seacock in the plumbing compartment. And also finding a spot for the Y Valve.
So, who's got a Y valve in their boat and where is it mounted? Where is the 2nd 1.5" line run?
Bud,
Have you done a search of this site? I just did one and came up with an article by Bill Matley, about installing a second holding tank. You may not want to go that route, but he also had some good photos of a Y-valve, just aft of the bulkhead. Just a thought.
Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT
Tom, yes I saw that. I was wondering what other spots they might be mounted in. I would like to keep free as many of those lockers as I can to use for storing "stuff" in when we go south.
I was thinking on the raised floor behind the head. Or what other people had done or what Catalina did if these boats ever came from the factory with a Y valve instead of a macerator.
[QUOTE=bstreet;4877]Tom, yes I saw that. I was wondering what other spots they might be mounted in. I would like to keep free as many of those lockers as I can to use for storing "stuff" in when we go south.
I was thinking on the raised floor behind the head. Or what other people had done or what Catalina did if these boats ever came from the factory with a Y valve instead of a macerator.[/QUOTE]
1409 has a Y valve just aft of the bulkhead. I believe that it came from the factory that way. It does interfere with using the area for storage.
Bruce
Bruce Campbell
Evergreen Dreams #1409
Bud,
In the two photos attached, we are in the salon looking toward portside.
The first photo shows the compartment immediately AFT of the holding tank, where the output of the holding tank goes to the macerator, and thence to the macerator thru-hull. The macerator is just barely visible in the right side of the opening. The black hose without green striping on it goes to the holding tank suck-out on deck.
The second photo shows the compartment immediately FORWARD of the holding tank. The output from the head enters the center of the Y-Valve, and is selected either to the holding tank (in the position shown), or to the Y-valve's dedicated thru-hull. The Y-Valve thruhull is just out of view in that same compartment, but you can just barely see the end of the seacock handle at the left edge of the opening.
This is all factory-standard installation.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Thanks for the info. I am leaning towards putting in a Y valve in that forward locker even though we'll lose a lot of space in there.
Larry, your locker with the pump has more room that ours, I put the 1.5" seacock about dead center in there (it is huge) and now it is hard to work around it plus the water pressure pump and lines intrude in there as well.
What's driving this whole thing is for when we are in areas were there are no pump outs eg down south, up north. I think that if I stay with a macerator I have to have a 1.5" ball valve in front of it so that when the macerator pump dies (in my experience it's not IF but WHEN it dies they seem to die frequently) you can turn off the flow to change the pump. I don't have room to get a ball valve in front of the pump. So I have no redundancy without making a big mess. Plus with that setup you can't lubricate the ball valve very easily, meaning it likely will end up seizing as well.
I also think a Y valve is simpler and less likely to fail. Cost wise a Y valve and some hose is way cheaper. It looks like I can run a 2nd hose inboard of the waste tank without too much trouble, probably have to move the water accumulator tank but that should be about it.
So does anyone have any comments on Y valve reliability vs macerator pump reliability? Y valve seems simple and rebuild kits are 12 bucks. Anyone?
There's another way to do it, without a Y valve.
Head output to a T right above the 1 1/2" thru hull then to a valve then to tank; the T goes down to overboard discharge thru hull (1 1/2"). Close the valve to the holding tank and open the overboard thru hull for overboard discharge. Close overboard discharge valve, open valve to tank for using holding tank.
The picture shows the valve. Pretend the white hose is connected to the elbow going into the valve and that the valve is connected to the tank. I took this when I was trying to install the plastic ball valve and had just taken off this section of piping.
This is the way my boat was plumbed by the PO. He unfortunately used a metal Ace Hardware 1 1/2" gate valve as the valve to the holding tank, instead of a plastic ball valve. I tried replacing it two years ago, but couldn't get a plastic ball valve to fit in the limited space. Since the part of the gate valve that gets eaten up by the stuff in the pipes is the stem and gate inside the valve, we just open the packing nut, remove the gate and stem and handle, buy a new valve ($7) and insert the new stem, handle and gate, keeping the same valve body.
The macerator output thru hull on our boat is only a 3/4" valve, although the outlet from the tank to the macerator is the larger size hose.
There is also a philosophical thing at work here: does everything go into the tank first even if you go overboard, or should it go overboard first if it isn't going into the tank. This is a MAJOR consideration in your plumbing. West Marine likes the "everything through the tank" method. I think that's absurd, why stuff anything into the tank that doesn't have to go there? Why require a macerator for overboard discharge ever if it can go directly? [url]http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1...
One trick with the macerator, if it seems to fail: switch the wire connections and the pump will run backwards and might clear it out. Of course, leave the macerator output thru hull open when you do this. Most macerator pumps are 12 to 14 GPM. The holding tanks are about 15, so you'd fill up the tank in about a minute, but you won't need this long to do this. Many folks have put quick connects on the wiring at the pump to do this more easily. I've never needed to. This also means it shouldn't take long to empty it, too!
From material I've read in forums on the internet, not all Y valves are created equal. Really different performances. Since I don't have one, I didn't keep track. A little research on Y valve performance would help. Try [url]www.catalinaowners.com[/url], post a question there.
If you can't fit a valve between the macerator pump and the tank, then plumb it so the entry to the pump is slightly above the bottom of the tank. Of course, the tank should be empty when you swap out the pump, right? So just use a big wooden plug on the line when you remove the pump. I use that big wooden plug when I swap out my head units every five or so years. Of course, also, the tank will be full when the pump dies. Oh, the joys of boating. But then you could find a pump out station, but, yeah, probably not...
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
[QUOTE=bstreet;4877]I was thinking on the raised floor behind the head. Or what other people had done or what Catalina did if these boats ever came from the factory with a Y valve instead of a macerator.[/QUOTE]
Bud, here's a pic of the Whale diverter valve (Y-valve) I installed behind the head. It fits perfectly and is easily accessible. I'm sure I did a write-up on it it once upon a time, but let me know and I have more pics and can explain the installation.
Mike
[ATTACH]349[/ATTACH]
Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA
At present I have no Y valve. Ours had a broken handle on it when we bought the boat and we cannot (and would not) discharge anywhere in the Chesapeake, so we pump out at all times for now.
I do like the idea of the Whaler unit that could fit behind the head seat.
Laura Olsen
Past Commodore
S/V Miramar
hull 938 (MKI 1989, TR,WK, M25xp)
Edgemere, MD
Thanks everyone for the input. I was able to resolve the problem with some judicious routing of hoses and get a 1.5" valve in between the holding tank and the macerator pump, which will allow me to change the pump if (when) it dies even if the tank is full, which of course it will be.
I also have it set up in such a way that I could go from that valve directly to the 1.5" seacock which I think would allow the tank to drain overboard. I can still put a Y valve in thanks to the pictures folks posted I know how I would do it but for now I'm going to go with the macerator and a spare pump that I already have.
At our marina, up until last year, they had a blue plastic barrel on a wagon with a Whale Gusher pump and you would pull the thing over to your boat, down a steeply inclined floating dock and pump your tank out into that. Then you would try to pull that barrel full back up the dock and over to a deep concrete sewer pit where you would pop the concrete lid off, back the wagon up, open a valve on the back and let 'er all drain into the concrete sewer pit, while trying to get upwind quickly. Now we have a modern vacu-flush unit, it's kind of a hell of a lot better. The joys of rustic boating. At least I know the whale gusher pump can handle that stuff no problem-o.
You know, Bud, I am embarrassed to say I do not know [U]exactly[/U] where the waterline is relative to the interior of my cabin, but I am pretty sure that the holding tank is somewhat below the waterline. If so, it would not drain by gravity very far.
I know that if I fail to close the seacock after using the macerator offshore, some amount of water will eventually back up past the macerator pump vanes and partially refill our holding tank.
Just FYI.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Duane, yes for sure, when I opened the seacock to test the plumbing for leaks I could clearly hear water inrush to the pump. But I think, and I too am not positive, that at least part of the tank is above the waterline and for sure part of it is above the seacock outlet, so there should be some gravity effect. But "should" is a word that means "ain't gonna happen" as often as it means "yup, it'll happen".