Mike

On my boat the "well" that the mast sits in has a drain hole so water that comes down the inside of the mast can drain into the bilge and not overflow unto the floorboards.

I don't think I get the amount of water you do when it rains but I do get a little seepage at the base where the mast sits on the step.

I have Spartite at the mast partner which seals that area of the mast quite well so any water I do get I think is coming in from the various openings in the mast when the rain is being pushed by the wind.

As for the corrosion, water probably got between the paint and the mast at the base and the corrosion is working its way up.

Mike,
I agree with Bill. There should be a limber hole in the aft stbd corner of the little well or basin at the base of the mast. You should be able to take a 3/8" drill and drill one aft and outboard from the corner. Make sure any wiring in the bilge is out of the way. Our masts are not water-tight. With internal halyards, you will alwasy have exit plates, and water (rain) will get in them. Somewhere in the Upgrades or Maintenance section of the website is a picture of what the mast step looks like with the mast pulled. Any water inside the mast will flow into the small well, and then it SHOULD flow into the bilge. Also as Bill says, the corrosion is from water getting between the mast and the paint. Unless the mast is sitting in salt water 24/7, the corrosion you see should not be structural. The next time you pull the mast you can clean, prime, and paint that section.

I live in Vancouver - we often get 2+ inches of water in the bilge in less than 24 hours due to water coming down the inside of the mast. My mast boot does not leak. You must have a limber hole in the same compartment as the mast, as described above.

My parents' boat has a similar setup to the Catalina - my dad put a dam in the bottom of the mast about 3" up from the base, using foam. He drilled a hole in the side, and put a hose barb in it. He has a little 1/4" hose running from here into the bilge. This does stop water from sitting in the bottom of the mast where there are dissimilar metals causing corrosion. However I don't think this is altogether necessary as long as you make it easy for water to get from the mast to the bilge, and try to steer it away from any wood while you are at it.

Mike, here are some observations...

[QUOTE=dejavu;3469]
1. Is there any way to get at where the mast sits in the bilge without pulling the mast?
2. How the heck does the water rise UP around the mast from the bilge area when the bilge only has 1 1/2" of water in it?
3. Could the mast be blocked inside at the base so that the mast is filling with water which is escaping through the wire access hole (see photo)?
4. What do you think is causing the corrosion?
5. Is my theory completely wrong and this much water came down the groove in the sail track past all the rigging tape and into the boat?
[ATTACH]182[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

1. It 'might' be possible to remove the cabinetry just aft/port of the mast to gain better access. On my Mk II with U-shaped dinette, it is easy to remove that unit.

2. Trust me. Well, if not me, then Isaac Newton. Water is NOT coming UP. If it were, then the entire bilge would be flooded to the same level.

3. Yes, I believe it could be possible...at least to the extent that any leakage might be slow. If so, then you might have a fairly large reservoir of trapped water in there. (Don't take this idea unless a qualified person agrees, but if it were my boat, I would be inclined to drill a tiny (1/8") pilot hole near the base of the mast to see what comes out. Somewhere on this site is a photo of the mast step, which I would want to review just to ensure that any pilot drill went through the mast, and not through the casting that the mast fits over.)

4. The corrosion, which I spotted immediately in your photo, is to me the most worrisome part of your problem. I suspect you're in for a stick pull. You're salt-water based, I think. While I can't imagine how salt water might have gotten inside your mast, I do worry that the corrosion might be related to the water trapment problem.

5. Yes, it is possible for that much water to have come down the inside of the mast.

As previously mentioned, there should be a drain hole in the 'basin' that the mast step sets in. And while you're checking limber holes, you need to make sure that the entire length of the bilge allows free running water. This includes not only the limber hole from the mast base aft, but also the limber holes forward of the mast.

In your photo, you see the cabin sole forward of the mast (that goes into the V-berth). Remove that piece of teak/holly laminate and you'll gain access to a small bilge space where your most-forward keel bolt lives. There should be a limber hole running aft from that area. Then there should be another limber hole going forward from that bilge compartment, into the area beneath the V-berth. You should make sure these are open. These limber holes are about 1" diameter.

Mike

You're looking at the base of the mast. It doesn't go through the sole to the keel.

Check out the Maintenance section, under the Technical tab on the C36IA home page. There are two photos of a mast step in John Reimann's excellent article, "Bulkhead Replacement." Just scroll down a short way from the top of the article. In the first photo, you see a cut white wire at the aft-portside corner of the casting. This is where the drain hole to the bilge would be.

This casting is the grey color you see at the base of your mast. Yes, that IS the bottom of the mast you're looking at in your photo. Apparently, Catalina changed their casting at some point in the production. On John Reimann's MK II, it looks like the mast sets IN the casting; in your photo, it appears the mast sets OVER the casting.

As to a stick pull...Your yard has to lift it out with a crane or some other hefty & high machine. You can facilitate the pull in advance by removing the sails, disconnecting all electrical wiring at the base of the mast, opening up the mast boot, removing the boom and vang, securing all running rigging, and loosening all the standing rigging turnbuckles. Don't forget the deck attachment in the salon. Sounds like a helluva lot of work, doesn't it? Well, think of our brethern on the east coast and upper midwest...they have to do this annually!

We're so lucky because our boat stays in the water year round. Maybe some of our east coast Members can chime in here about mast removal and reinstallation.

yes, on my (Mark II) boat the mast sits inside of that cast aluminum step.

As for pulling the mast - as a complete novice, never having done it before, I found it not very difficult to prepare the mast for being pulled. One detail: Be sure to treat your turnbuckles on the standing rigging with PB Blaster or some similar product at least 24 hours in advance and then try loosening them before the yard gets to work. Unlessyou have nearly new rigging, these turnbuckles will tend to freeze up, and since you will be paying the yard labor costs per hour, this can add to your expense.

As LCBrandt says, don't forget to diconnect all wiring. On mine, the wires exited at the port side of the mast towards the aft. One set of wires had a plug, but I had to cut the others. It's no problem reconnecting them.

This was the day that we decommissioned Lucky at lake Travis in Austin in preparation for the move to Canyon Lake. Alamo Crane ($300/hr) pulled the stick and then we had to do it all over again at the other end.

I am very glad we do not have to do this every year!;) Guranteed to take years off your life.

Bill, I LOVE that green pick-up!

I have a MKII and our mast step is different, but I can offer some advice. ( am an Mechanical Engineer BTW, just so you don't think you are taking structural advice from an expert in French Romantic Poetry.)

At this point I would see no reason to pull the mast. I do it every year, and believe me, you don't want to do it unless you have to.

Here is what I would suggest. First, look at the illustration of the mast step that Larry suggested. The mast step has a ridge that fits into the interior of the mast extrusion. I can't access the photos at this moment, but I recall that there are gaps in that ridge.

You want to drill a 1/4" hole through your mast at the location of the gap in the mast step ridge , about 1/4" above the visible portion of the mast step.
Pick a hole location that will not allow water to drain out onto the floor.

If my memory is not correct, and there is no gap in the ridge that fits inside the mast, just drill right though the cast ridge mast step. You won't do the ridge on the mast step any harm by drilling a hole through it.

If you want to go through the trouble, you can select a drill size that will allow you to push a piece of flexible tubing into the hole. Then you can direct the draining water anywhere you would like.

Regarding the corrosion, The mast extrusion is very thick and overbuilt. Plus, unless there are dissimilar metals causing electrolytic corrosion, undisturbed aluminum is self healing and will not continue to corrode like steel.

I would take a sharp implement and dig into the corrosion at a few spots to see how deep it is. I suspect the corrosion is superficial, and looks worse than it is because of the paint bubbling.

Dave, thank you. It is satisfying to hear an authoritative response. My background is electronics; so an engineer's perspective here is very welcome. If someone could provide a photo of a mast step that is the same style as the one on Mike's boat it would be helpful for all of us to visualize. Can anyone help with this???

Bay zee wae, how did you find out I was moonlighting as Editeur du Technique* on that French Romantic Poetry site? :)

* Is this right? I have no idea.

Actually it thin

My boat is stored indoors, in northern Michigan and the staff of my marina and I, remove my boat mast annually and of course re-step the mast in the spring.

It's become a pretty straight forward process but I have learned a few things along the that may be helpful to others.

First, Get and use a hard hat when working a crane!

After you remove the turnbuckles for the various stays, put the turnbuckle assembly in a nice new (ish) white cotton tube sock and tape the sock to the wire stay. This keeps the turnbuckles from snaging stuff (did that in 2006) and scratching the topside of the boat. (probably did that)

I have a tall rig mast and the correct place to attach the crane is about 1 foot below the spreader. Watch out for the deck light.

As you begin pulling the mast, be sure to ease all of your mast head electrical wires out of the boat and then put them into the mast to keep them safe for the trip. All of my electrical connections are on quick connect type fixtures so that I can get them apart and back together, quickly.

REMEMBER to remove the deck turnbuckle inside the cabin and then unscrew the attached u-bolt from the mast, sliding it off before you attempt to completely withdraw the mast. The ubolt will not fit through the deck opening without doing serious damage to the opening and your deck. You must also remember to reinstall this ubolt as the mast re-enters the boat in the spring or whenever. This ubolt assembly slides into a track in the mast and cannot be installed if the mast is seated in the base tabernacle. So plan ahead and go slow! I keep a piece of tape on the base of the mast to remind me to install the ubolt.

Plan for what you intend to do with the mast when it's out of the boat. My marina has built for me and several other customers, their own 2, 2x6 wooden cradles on wheels that are carpet covered and they gently lay the mast on/in these cradles.

Pay attention to the roller furling, it can be easily crushed by the weight of the mast (did that in 2007) and will bend if not supported properly. My ground crew ties all the loose ends around the mast to keep them under control, at several points down the length of the mast.

Do not expect to move the mast once it's down and in it's cradle, it is very heavy and resists my best efforts to lift or to turn the mast. The wheeled cradles make moving the mast into storage a simple 1-2 person job.

After that, mast maintenance is a real pleasure.

I'll send along a couple pictures.

Bill Matley

Here is a picture of the mast base.

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;3489]Bill, I LOVE that green pick-up![/QUOTE]

That was the rigger's buddy's truck. I had my doubts about both of them but when all was said and done, they did an outstanding job and I would use them again in a heartbeat.

Looking at Bill's operation in Michigan I am impressed, looks first rate all the way. I have seen our marina drop 2 boats (one was a huge houseboat) and one trailer jumped off a hitch (no chains) and rolled backward into a brickwall destroying the lower unit and swim platform of a beautiful Rinker powerboat that had just been relocated here from Florida. To see his operation is pretty cool. Except for the fact that he has to pull the boat and store it for the winter. We have the luxury of using ours year round.

I don't want to hijack Mike's thread, but the photo below was when I finally relaxed after 2 days of tearing the boat apart and then putting it back together. In fact, when this picture was taken, the main and boom were still tied to the deck. I put them on the next morning.

Why paint the mast, I am wondering? My mast is raw aluminum from top to bottom. Below deck, it has the vinyl mast cover velcro'ed over it, but that's all. What's wrong with raw aluminum??? It seems that if it were raw aluminum any exterior corrosion would be either less likely or certainly visible.

Incidentally, Mike, re your Question #2...I would bet a goodly sum that there is already a drain hole there, and that it is plugged. Why don't you try probing with, say, a length of fairly stiff wire (like a piece welding rod) and see if you can locate and open it?

Mike,
As I mentioned in my last post, I think drilling a hole thru the corner of the "well" is a good idea to drain water from the well into the bilge. On the other hand, I don't think you will gain anything by trying to drill down thru the center of the mast step. I'm pretty sure that the area directly under he mast step is solid. Solid what, I'm not sure, but that area has to withstand thousands of pounds of compression. In very early Catalinas (C30 to be specific), the area below the mast step was wood. Add a wet environment and multiple years, and you end up with rotten wood and a compressed mast step (not good!). Sometime in the mid-late 70's they switched to non-natural material under the mast step, which does not rot. If you want to drain the inside of the mast, you should drill a small (1/4"?) hole thru the extrusion. The hole should be as low as possible, and not go thru the mst step tabs that extend upward. Bill's picture should help you find a spot, but your mast step MIGHT not be the same. From memory, the one on Julandra (1987 #659) is different. Hope this helps.

A picture is truly worth a thousand words indeed. I too thought that maast on omy 2001 was positioned below the sole of the main salon. I willhave to check to see if the little drain holes ared plugged.

I, like Bill am thankful that we live in a clime where we don't have to haul the boat annuall and remove the stick. I endured that routine with my Catalina 25for 20 years and even on a 25 it can be dangerous and expensive. Thanks again for all of your insight into this matter of water draining in through the mast.

[QUOTE=TomSoko;3508]Mike,
In very early Catalinas (C30 to be specific), the area below the mast step was wood. Add a wet environment and multiple years, and you end up with rotten wood and a compressed mast step (not good!). Sometime in the mid-late 70's they switched to non-natural material under the mast step, which does not rot.[/QUOTE]

Heads up that I spoke with Kent Nelson, an engineer at Catalina Yachts, and he says that this is wood in MK1 C36's (at least through 1984). I just verified this on my own boat, which has a sinking mast step (not good!). Since this is a relatively big project I'm going to write up a new thread on that: "Sinking (Compressed) Wooden Mast Step" next.

I have attached a picture Kent sent me showing how Catalina designed this.

If you unscrew your forward cabin sole and pull it up, there is a wooden access hole through which you can view the mast step and verify this for yourself...and also check the forward-most keel bolt.

Yep, they can rot!
Our rotted mast step block was compounded when a PO hit a reef or something, actually separating the hull from the floors... :(

Edit: From memory when we fixed this, I sealed the four screws thru the slotted holes, and filled the big hole in the centre with Sika Flex. Then drilled a small hole in the casting to let the water out. A bit hazy on this now, though

As Tom mentioned, the earlier boats had wood under the mast step. He mentioned 1984 for your boats. I ended up doing research on our boats and it turns out that they still used wood until mid-1988!

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6752.0.html[/url]

The drawing posted may not apply to your boats, I'd follow the instructions described here and the sketch that Ben posted.

Thanks for the pics, Rob. They help me see the area in which I'm about to cut an access hole behind and to starboard of the mast. I was hoping to not have to cut away as much as you did.

You're welcome, Ben. You shouldn't have to do the repairs we did, we had some serious structural issues probably the result of a major 'grounding'...

I was concerned to see the corrosion to the keelbolts though (and the aft one under our fuel tank) as they were worse than any of the ones we could see in the accessible part of the bilge.

Hi, Rob.

I notice that you had to do a lot of cutting on the hull liner to get at all the bad parts.

After you finished fixing, how did you re-fiberglass the hull liner sections and the cabin sole, so that (a) it has good structural integrity and (b) looks pleasing to the eye...or does it?

Do you have pics of the completed job?

I ask because I will now need to do something similar to what you did, but on a somewhat smaller scale.

Hi Ben
The boat builder did the work, I just held stuff for him :-)
First he epoxied and screwed blocks under the joints. Then the old bits went back in with epoxy. The joints were vee'd out and filled with 'bog'. Everything got masked off. The a spray painter came in and made it look like new. The colour was slightly different (just an eye match) but not noticeable. We sprayed into corners and edges to make it less obvious... We're really amazed how good it looks after the MESS!

Edit: BTW, we took the chance to fill in some unnecessary holes in the head cabinet, and repainted in there up to the edge.

Not the best photos, nothing much taken of it after. Sorry.

Excellent. Thanks, Rob.