Wilf,

Describe the situations in which you experience the 'round up', please. What waters, seas, winds, sail that you have up, etc. How long have you had your boat? What is your standard 'policy' for reefing? Do you reef the main first or the jib? At what wind speeds?

Also, please click the User CP link in the upper left corner of this page and set up a signature (using my signature below as a model) so that we know more about you and your boat. What rig (tall or standard) and what keel (fin or shoal)? Thanks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mk II already has an enlarged rudder relative to the mark 1?

If you go too big with the rudder, the loads on all the parts go upwards. I was on a boat a couple winters ago that lost it's rudder (while doing about 13 knots) and I would have to say that a moderate sized rudder is far superior to none at all.

Larry's questions are all good.

I can tell you from racing on other people's boats that if you fail to adjust for excessive weather helm, you can wind up with the rudder at too high an angle. At that point, if a gust starts the boat rounding up, the helmsman tries to apply even more rudder, and the rudder will likely 'stall' hydrodynamically (meaning it can't produce the proper sideways force it needs to steer the boat). There is no question that a fast round-up will occur at that point.

I had an '88 C30 prior to my current 36. The 36 was a huge improvement over the C30 with regard to rudder stalling. Where the 30 would stall and round up fairly readily when heeled over, the 36 has only had an uncontrolled roundup a few times in 13 years. In the situations where this happened, I'd rate the roundup as being a safety 'feature' as otherwise, I'd have been heeled dangerously by the sudden/unexpected gust:eek:. It's my understanding that most 'consumer' non-racing boats are designed with a certain amount of weather helm for just that reason.

Note that my 3 favorite words are 'small craft advisory'; so I enjoy sailing with a couple reefs in the main and most of the jib rolled up (or just the jib). There are times I'd prefer a bit less weather helm, but it's also probably a good warning that perhaps I'm pushing things a bit too hard ;) But I've always felt that the C36 rudder was much better sized than the C30, though the C30's beam to length ratio probably had something to do with the the amount of weather helm it has.

Not saying you're wrong, just my experience.

I agree with Gary's first paragraph. A little weather helm also puts the rudder at a good angle to create lift in the same direction as the keel to reduce leeway.

We found out the exciting way last year that the boat wants a reef in the main first. Sailing with full main and reduced genny caused weather helm and uncontrollable rounding up in 22-25 knot wind (on a day when 15 was forecast). Now we go out with first reef in the main if wind is forecast at 15 because as often as not we get way more than that. There is no rake in the mast from what I can determine.

[QUOTE=bstreet;7354]We found out the exciting way last year that the boat wants a reef in the main first. Sailing with full main and reduced genny caused weather helm and uncontrollable rounding up in 22-25 knot wind (on a day when 15 was forecast). Now we go out with first reef in the main if wind is forecast at 15 because as often as not we get way more than that. There is no rake in the mast from what I can determine.[/QUOTE]

I have the same rig and keel as Wilf. The boat is sensitive to the main trim and a reef is the first way to reduce weather helm.

As far as the rudder is concerned. There is a deeper rudder (as found on my friend Walchenbach's boat, Mata Hari). However it only works with a deep keel because it would extend below the keel. Not a good thing!

Bud's exactly right. If you're flying a 135 Genny, you should be able to begin reefing with winds greater than 15 (and maybe at 20), first with a single reef in the main. Don't reef the genoa until you have the second slab in the main. The real power of our boats in these conditions comes from the jenny. The fastest I've ever seen my boat on a reach was 8.1 kts on an accurate knotmeter with one reef in the main and the 135 genny full out.

Of course, boat balance is essential for control AND speed. Too much sail up and not only do you have excess heel, and therefore poor control, but you are wasting power. With appropriate reefing the boat will stand up and be considerably faster than if you have a rail under. I say on our boat, tongue in cheek, "When the skipper gets scared it's time to be reefed." Of course I'm talking about excess heel. A lot of people think that a boat is faster the more it heels...Wrong!

I *think* that the way the bulletin board system recognizes you when you come back is via a cookie. If your antivirus software scans daily and is programmed to delete cookies you'll probably have to sign in each time.

Disclaimer: I am not a computer guru so my impression on this may be wildly erroneous.

I visit the Forum everyday and I get about 2 weeks before I have to log in again with my credentials. I believe there is a time expiration on it.

I checked the cookies the site leaves and there are only 4 that I can find. Two of them are Google Analytics cookies, the other two I think track activity on the bulletin board (bblastactivity and bblastvisit). Those two don't contain a recognizable date just a number which could be a date representation. So I'm not sure it is a cookie. It may be tracked by the site itself. I get I think about a month between log ins but never really recorded it.

You also may have your web browser set to not store passwords and so it can't log you in automatically.