250 ft of 5/16 BBB at 1.2 lbs/ft = 300 lbs. You already have some amount of rode out there, so subtract that weight to come up with the difference. Then simply gather one or two willing souls from the dock to stand out at the bow of your boat while you look at it from a distance.

Personally, having cruised throughout the Pac NW area including Desolation Sound, and instructed a number of bareboat classes in the San Juans, I question the need for 250 ft of chain. In our part of the world we're not anchoring among coral heads with the abrasion risks that, say, the Caribbean sailors know. Think of how you'd retrieve an extra 200+ lbs of tackle if you have to anchor deep. (What we do see often is high density anchoring, such as at Echo Bay on Sucia, where I have been one of 125 anchored boats over a Labor Day weekend. San Juan Island custom is to use 3 to 1 scope to limit swing. If the winds pick up to allow a reliable anchoring direction, then increase scope accordingly.)

My boat carries 100 ft of chain and 200 ft of rope, which makes the anchoring system much easier to handle, and which is (in my opinion) entirely adequate for NW cruising. I would earnestly recommend a good quality, heavy CQR-style anchor instead of chain beyond 100 ft. A 35 lb CQR is appropriate, but heavier if you want added security. Up here, 10 more lbs of anchor equals a better solution than 200 lbs more chain.

I also recommend in our waters avoiding the Bruce anchor. I have drug more times on a Bruce than all other anchors combined. We see a lot of kelp, and the Bruces I have used just will not grab and hold through that slick stuff. I wouldn't have one on my boat up here, recognizing that in another part of the planet it might be just fine. They're popular because they are cheap. One of my worst Bruce learning experiences happened one morning when my class was retrieving a Bruce, only to find a perfectly-sized boulder resting in it. Aside from the ugly realization that the boat had rested to a damn boulder all night, it was a bear to get the large rock out of the anchor so we could depart Inati Bay into the breezy, white-capped Bellingham Bay seas. We were trapped until we - two of us were barely enough - could lie beneath the bow pulpit and manhandle that rock outta there!

I agree with everything Larry said.

The deepest water I have anchored in was about 35 ft and my 80ft of 5/16 chain and 200 ft of 5/8 nylon worked well. I didn't need quite all that rode, but we had several squalls come through and dragging would have been a disaster. I should mention that we changed our anchor to a 45 lb Delta and I sleep much better at night.

I cannot say for sure that all chain is never desirable, but the boats I know that have 200ft + of chain are much heavier crusing boats than our C36s. I do think that much weight would not be great for the boat's handling and seakindliness, but that's an opinion.

This in interesting because I have the same question. We just bought a 45 lb. Delta on 100 ft 5/16" G43 chain and 200 ft of 5/8" double braid rode. After I split the anchor locker and install another roller, I intend to put on a 45 lb. Manson Supreme with the same chain/rode combination. That's 300 lbs give or take. Since we intend on going south and the weather fronts down there seem to be getting wilder as the years pass, it seems prudent to go well armed. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, is anybody else carrying that amount of anchor weight?

We have more weight at the bow than most, I would guess.

We have the 80 ft of 5/16 chain, 200 ft of 5/8 nylon and 45 lb primary anchor, plus a secondary 16 lb Fortress with 20 ft of 5/16 chain and 250 ft of 5/8 nylon. I have never weighed it or computed it, which I probably should.

I would probably pause at replicating the weight of my primary tackle like you are proposing to do, but that's just me.

I also use 100 ft of chain and 200 ft of rode here in the NE.
I swear by my 35 lb CQR. I have anchored in many types of conditions and it has always held. Of course it goes without saying that setting the anchor properly is critical to its holding.

I see very few people (on sailboats) using all chain in Desolation. I run 40' of chain and 200' of rope and have yet to need more in BC. However I do not have a windlass so chain isn't an option anyhow. I think the issue is not so much how much chain fits in the front, it is about how much weight you can reasonably carry up there and still go over the waves instead of through them.

We put on 50 metres (160 feet) of 8mm chain for our tropical excursion, with another 50 metres of 16mm (5/8) brait. This has been plenty for us, and we are still butt down in the water.

If you are anchored on an upwardly sloping bottom and stern tied you won't need as long a scope anyway - you will be trying to drag the anchor uphill with an onshore breeze.

We used to have a 20kg (44lb) Delta which was very good, now we have a 20kg Rocna which is VERY good. With the Rocna we hardly ever use more than 1:3 scope as the tests showed little improvement beyond that on a flat bottom.

Rob that is good to know, we have had very good results with the Delta in past and have heard many good reports about Rocna/Manson type anchors.

We are going to do a scientific test this spring when the boat is in the water. Once we have the Delta 44 and 100' of chain and 200' of 5/8 double braid on the bow, we are going to find a body that weighs about 150 lbs. That is roughly the weight of the Manson Supreme 44/100' chain/200' 5/8 double braid. We'll get that body to stand on top of the anchor locker while we measure and take before/after pictures of the waterline. That kind of science will tell us what we need to know.

How about a 120 pound swimsuit model standing on a case of rum?

Wow, great price on a Rocna indeed. I also secretly want a Rocna but since the Manson is way cheaper and seems to rate about as well, decided it was good enough. But now, well, hope springs eternal!

As for Duane's suggestion, the admiral, being a lover of Appleton's finest rum, would appreciate that part but the swimsuit model wouldn't likely go over too good! But perhaps in the name of science she would make an exception?

I didn't want this to turn into a new generation anchor thread, but it has, so...

I have a Rocna. It pulls me off the bow. Our buddy sailed his C34 down from Vancouver to Mexico this year and he reports on his anchor in reply #2, here: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html[/url]

The Manson is quite comparable, it's a 50/50 call, your boat, your choice, your pocketbook!:rolleyes:

Glenn, who did you buy the Rocna from? Any contact info? It may not be too late to get another deal like that, and I certainly am interested. Fisheries Supply in Seattle has that anchor listed online at $382.49.

And Stu, which model do you have? The same Rocna 15kg (33 lb)?

Now that I've said that, maybe I should ask how the Rocna rides in your bow roller???

Glen:
Just a FYI. We had T-105s for 7 yrs and loved them. When I went to replace them with the same thing last summer. The T-125's went in the same location. So a few more amps.

Randy

I bought T-105's at a Gulf Cart dealer last year and paid a little under $90 each plus a $20 core deposit. They go to people's houses to service golf carts here in Florida, but they would not come out to my dock to install my T-105's even as a paid service call. I could not get my 6 foot tall Iowa farm girl wife to do it either. I had to lug the batteries home, pull out the old T-105's, put in the new ones and take the old ones back for the core exchange. They did load and off load the batteries from my truck at their store. To top it off my wife came with me to drop off the old cores and get the $80 cash core exchange deposit then made me take her out for dinner with the money.

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;4333]

And Stu, which model do you have? The same Rocna 15kg (33 lb)?

Now that I've said that, maybe I should ask how the Rocna rides in your bow roller???[/QUOTE]

We have a Rocna 10, 22#. I sized it for 42 knot winds, would take 60 kts. I would not, neither would my boat! The discussion about how I sized the anchoring system for my boat is here, tables on page 1, more explanation on page 2: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html[/url]

It sits just fine on our tiny old toy bow rollers. Steve Dolling mentioned that there is an advantage of having continued use of the toy bow rollers: the moment arm is shorter than if it was out on a longer roller.

Glen:

I have not yet bought the windless, but I am going to change out from my old one to a new Maxwell VW 1500. It says it comes in either BBB or HighTest 5/16 As I have Hightest chain so I am sure planing on that it fits the gypsy. Do you have the opposite chain to the gypsy?

Randy

I am upgrading my windlass from the stock VC500 (no gypsy) to a VW1500. Question to those who have done this; did you upgrade the wiring to the windlass? The 1500 series motors are rated at twice the wattage of the 500 (1200 vs. 600). Would hate to start a fire while pulling up the anchor..!

As to anchor types. I cruise the northern Chesapeake Bay, where the bottom is mud, mud over sand or sand. I had an '88 Catalina 30 for 9 years before purchasing my 36 in 97. Used an undersized Bruce 16lb anchor. Never dragged once including a night of 50+knot winds, after which it took me half an hour to break it loose. When I got my 36, I purchased a 35lb Delta, since lots of people use them. I could NEVER get that thing to set, often breaking out my Fortress so I could get a good nights sleep. Sold it and got a 33lb. Bruce. Always sets, never drags, always sleep well. I continue to see lots of folks with Deltas on the bow, and can't understand why it worked so poorly for me. But I've had such good results with the Bruce I'd be hard pressed to change unless I changed my cruising grounds, in which case I'd probably add a CQR.

Different things seem to work for different people.

Only a guess, but it is likely the original wiring was sized for the original windlass. If the new windlass is twice the wattage of the old one, then it needs double the current to drive it. The installation manual of the new windlass will state what gauge wiring is required for a specific length. AND, don't forget, you may need to install a new circuit breaker to accomodate the new wiring and load.

Nice to hear good things about a Bruce. As you may have read in other postings of mine I have had dismal experiences with Bruces in the Pacific Northwest. But our conditions are different...rockier bottoms and kelp, particularly, are not handled well by a Bruce. My (frankly, too light) CQR has been excellent for 8 years now.

[QUOTE=plaineolde;4561]I am upgrading my windlass from the stock VC500 (no gypsy) to a VW1500. Question to those who have done this; did you upgrade the wiring to the windlass? The 1500 series motors are rated at twice the wattage of the 500 (1200 vs. 600). Would hate to start a fire while pulling up the anchor..!

Garry,
That is the same one I am installing but have yet to buy it. The best price I have found is $1799 with $20 shipping any place in the US. As for wire, here is a nice program that will help you decide on the wire size.
[URL="http://www.midcoast.com/~aft/wiresz30.html"]http://www.midcoast.com/~aft/wiresz30.html[/URL]
Randy

Thanks for the calculator. I'm going to have to see what size wire is there from the factory, I don't recall for certain. Hopefully it's adequate, running wires is pain to say the least, and heavier gauges are expensive.

Bud & Suzanne,
you mentioned on 2/18 that you were planning on installing a second bow anchor roller. I would like to know how you plan to do so and I want to divide my anchor locker and fit a roller also. Anybody else that has already done so please feel free to respond also.

Thanks,

There's a very nice article by Malcolm Young, with good photos, in the C36IA Technical-Upgrades library on exactly this topic, "Adding a Second Anchor Roller and Divided Anchor Locker." Just keep glancing over the pages and you'll find it. In my browser it was on page 4.

Tony, the article Larry refers to is what got me thinking about doing this and it's my general guide. I think Malcolm had the 2nd roller installed at the factory, sizing and installing that may be the trickiest part of this job though I'm sure I can do it through the port in the front of the anchor locker. We have a 2nd 110 volt inlet up there which complicates things a bit. I plan to use cardboard to make a template for the divider and then cut it out of some material I haven't settled on yet, won't likely be Starboard it is incredibly expensive up here. Probably waterproof plywood with a layer of glass on it. This one's on the back burner until mid-summer I think though.

[QUOTE=plaineolde;4561]I am upgrading my windlass from the stock VC500 (no gypsy) to a VW1500. Question to those who have done this; did you upgrade the wiring to the windlass? The 1500 series motors are rated at twice the wattage of the 500 (1200 vs. 600). Would hate to start a fire while pulling up the anchor..!

As to anchor types. I cruise the northern Chesapeake Bay, where the bottom is mud, mud over sand or sand. I had an '88 Catalina 30 for 9 years before purchasing my 36 in 97. Used an undersized Bruce 16lb anchor. Never dragged once including a night of 50+knot winds, after which it took me half an hour to break it loose. When I got my 36, I purchased a 35lb Delta, since lots of people use them. I could NEVER get that thing to set, often breaking out my Fortress so I could get a good nights sleep. Sold it and got a 33lb. Bruce. Always sets, never drags, always sleep well. I continue to see lots of folks with Deltas on the bow, and can't understand why it worked so poorly for me. But I've had such good results with the Bruce I'd be hard pressed to change unless I changed my cruising grounds, in which case I'd probably add a CQR.

Different things seem to work for different people.[/QUOTE]

Gary:

I have just about got the installation of the VW1500 done. It is in the same location as the Maxwell 500 was. I am adding a down switch also so it will able to be powered both ways with out needing to free falling the anchor.

The current wire that is there is a #4 and at a 10% voltage drop as I am figuring 28 feet and it is good for 160 amps. The breaker that came with it is a 135 amp and the windlass motor is 1200 watts. Once I get it done I will take some pictures if you have not yet done your installation.

Randy

Bud:

I have used Warehoused Plastics Sales in Scarborough as a source for starboard. I purchased two pieces of 1" X 4" X 8' long sections to replace the teak hatch sliders on Allez Yukon. The cost was about $70.00 CDN two yeras ago. They will cut to size and will only charge what you take. Here is their web site

[url]http://www.theplasticstore.com/[/url]

I have only been to the head office on Venture Dr. in Scarborough, just off Morningside drive north of the 401.

Glenn, in my experience, neither a Danforth nor a Bruce is a suitable anchor for the San Juans. I have drug many times on a Bruce in the San Juans, on several different boats, and would not have one in those waters. Ditto for a danforth (although my secondary anchor, stowed in the cockpit locker is one), although I have not used one up there.

I have used a danforth many times in the sandy bottomed Columbia River, and so I think I understand its pecularities. A danforth seems fine for sandy bottoms, and probably the Bruce would be OK in those conditions also...but not in the rocks, eel grass and kelp of the San Juans and points north.

My worst experience with a Bruce was riding to what I thought was a good hook (in Inati Bay, on Lummi Island), and raising the anchor the next AM to find a large boulder exactly the size of the anchor filling the arms of the Bruce. We struggled to get that boulder out of there before we were able to launch into windy Bellingham Bay. It was a tough job for two people to wrestle that boulder out and tumble it back into the bay for the next Bruce user to find.

High Flight has a CQR knock-off that has been very effective, and I am interested in the Rocna. Frankly, I am too lightweight on anchor for the Inside Passage, so before I go north (in a few years) I must upgrade to heavier tackle.

[QUOTE=deising;4292]How about a 120 pound swimsuit model standing on a case of rum?[/QUOTE]

Hmm, let's see: let's say a case of rum is 12 bottles, say a gallon of rum in each bottle, say 8 pounds per gallon times 12 = 96 pounds.

Answer: NOPE

Use either two models and a case of rum, or two cases of rum and a model.

Better yet, two models and two cases of rum.:cool: