Engine Bed Repair

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tgrover's picture
tgrover
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Posts: 131
Engine Bed Repair

The lag bolts that hold the left and right forward isolators to the engine beds for my M25XP have been loose for a while and have stripped out the threads in the engine beds. I noticed this when we bought our boat in the spring and have been able to nurse it through the summer. We are now on the hard for the winter and I am contemplating how to repair these stripped holes. Has anyone experienced this before?

I am also considering replacing the isolators with the Vetus K75 as Tom Soko has done. Do the Vetus isolators have the same bolt spacing as the original Universal isolators? If not, that may help with the engine bed repair.

Thanks for any input.

Tom Grover
"Allez Yukon"
C36 #0949

Tom & Janis Grover

C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON

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TomSoko
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Posts: 978

Tom,
The Vetus motor mounts do have the same hole spacing as the OEM mounts, but one hole on each of the mounts need to be elongated to allow for adjustment. There are a number of discussions about this topic on the old message board:
[url]http://catalina36.org/eve/forums?a=search&reqWords=motor+mounts[/url]
You may be able to get away with dripping some epoxy down the stripped holes, but a better option (and more work) would be to lift the engine up, fill the holes with thickened epoxy, and re-drill them. I've never heard of any way to drill new holes with the engine in place. Hope this helps.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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mutualfun
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Posts: 454

Tom is right about lifting the engine up and working on it that way. If your on the hard you can use the boom to lift it as I have in the past. But you need a brace from the boom to the cockpit floor. If your good at doing such things and able to do fiberglass work. I have thought about cutting into the bed and inserting a threaded stainless steel plate then glassing back over it. Making it so it would never fail again. Just my point of view. Randy

Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.

cillman
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Posts: 30

Randy - When I installed the Vetus K-75's on my C34, I had to re-drill about three holes. The diesel mechanic gave me a tip to fill the old holes with a dowel & epoxy. We aligned the engine, marked the new hole positions, then I spun the mounts 90 degrees and drilled with a Ryobi 90 degree drill. It just cleared the engine. You probably have a lot better access on a C36.

The Vetus mounts don't have a lot of side to side adjustment, but they're worth the effort to install.

re: Ryobi drill, no project is worth doing if you can't justify a new tool. A 90 degree drill is just about a must-have for a boat owner.

Craig

Craig Illman, Seattle
S/V Espresso C34 #1150 1991

tgrover's picture
tgrover
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have toyed with the idea of fabricating 1/4" thick stainless steel plates to match the engine beds with 3/8' stainless steel nuts welded to the underside for the mount bolts. I would open up the existing lag bolt holes to provide clearance for the 3/8" nuts welded to the underside of the plates and screw the plates down to the engine beds. Use one long plate on each side. There appears to be enough adjustment in the mounts to accommodate the additional 1/4" thickness of the plates. I will let you know what I decide to do. Take care.

Tom Grover
"Allez Yukon"
C36 #0949
Midland, ON

Tom & Janis Grover

C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON

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LCBrandt
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Posts: 1282

Tom, if I understand you correctly, I think your idea could be described as an "adapter plate", that transfers the mount-to-engine-bed load to lag screws that are biting at a new location into fresh wood. Seems to me like it would work.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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tgrover
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Larry, that's pretty much my line of thought. If I decide to do it, I will take photos and write up a description in case someone else wants to try it. Take care

Tom & Janis Grover

C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON

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stu jackson c34
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Posts: 1270

The weight of the engine holds the mounts down. The prop shaft and couplers keep the engine from mvoing fore and aft. The lag bolts are essentially in shear. What we did recently was to remove the loose lag bolts (3 of 8), and insert a stack of toothpicks into the hole followed with silicone sealant. We let it set for a half hour and then replaced the lag bolts. They haven't moved since. It's a bear to move the engine and is unnecessary. The 90 degree tools are pretty expensive. We had the silicone on board already and the lag bolts were there, too.:)

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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Steve Frost
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Posts: 788

Stu

The old toothpick repair (indian trick #47) I have used this technique on occasion with stripped screws in wood. What you have done may very well solve your problem if the lag bolt was over torqued and stripped the wood in the engine log. If the log has deteriorated due to water damage your fix could be quite temporary.

As for gravity holding the engine in place, with the engine not running and the boat level. With the engine running this is not true. The torque of the engine tends to lift the engine off of one side or the other depending on forward or reverse is selected. Also if you take a hard knock down I doubt you would want the engine to be flying about loose in the galley and ripping the shaft out of the boat, gravity works a bit differnt when you are lying on your side.

If the engine log has suffered some rot, you would be better off drilling out the damaged wood and filling it with epoxy. I did this on my last boat and actually epoxied stainless nuts in the holes using a mold release agent on the bolt threads and shank so it could be removed after the epoxy sets. I made sure I got to dry wood, augered out the hole so the plug would be larger at the bottom than the top so it would not pull out.

Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas

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tgrover
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Posts: 131

I think that I have found a more palatable solution. Rather than making up stainless steel plates with nuts welded to them, I will use stainless steel hanger bolts. The hanger bolt has a lag bolt type thread on one end and a standard 3/8"-16 course threads on the other end. They come in various lengths so I should be able to pilot drill deeper into the beds and thread the lag bolt end into the engine bed using thickened epoxy to fill in the damaged threads in the beds. Then I can use 3/8" nylon lock nuts and washers to hold the new Vetus isolators in place. Thanks very much for your suggestions and comments.

Tom & Janis Grover

C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON

wilfbradbury
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Joined: 6/22/08
Posts: 25

An easy way to lift the engine if deemed necessary is to place a 4x4 across the companionway above the engine and put a chain around it. Hook a comealong onto the chain and away you go, in the water or on the hard.
You can lift the engine high enough to easily change the engine mounts.
Been there, done that.
Same problem occoured on our boat mk2 1437 1995.
Wilf

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tgrover
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Hi Wilf:

Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe Santa will bring a nice small come-along for Christmas!

Tom & Janis Grover

C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON

Steve Frost's picture
Steve Frost
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Posts: 788

Tom

Unless you have a solid boom vang I would tell Santa to save his money on the come along and bring you the new mounts.

I took off my boom vang, attached it to the boom, attached my mainsail halyard to that and tightened it.
The boom vang worked great to reinstall my engine, the jamb cleat worked well when I wanted to stop the progress. I would tie off the sheet end and not trust the jamb cleat if you are going to work under the engine.

Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas

tgrover's picture
tgrover
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Posts: 131

Thanks for the suggestion Steve. However, at the moment the mast is down and Allez Yukon is in her cradle for the winter. I am planning to do this in the spring before launch. Take care.

Tom & Janis Grover

C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON

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