The seacock in the head for the sink drain and shower pump drips out of the little white thing in the middle of the shut off handle when I open it up. When closed it's fine. It appears to be one of the OEM marelon seacocks that are original on these boats.
Anybody know if these are rebuildable? Are they rebuildable while the boats in the water? Are these the ones where if that white thing gets broken off they will spew water uncontrollably?
Yes water will spill in if the valve or hose brakes. Close the through hull then replace the white valve. You can buy them at any hardware store.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
I did some checking on Forespar's website and I found a picture of what the valve looks like. The little white loop I am referring to is on the top of this picture, it sticks out of the center of where the handle goes into the body of the seacock.
Found a pdf on that site that appears to say that this little white loop is attached to a plug and if you want to service the seacock you pull that white loop and attached plug out and it is the correct size to stuff into the seacock outside the hull. Then you can disassemble the seacock. They specifically say it can be serviced in the water once you do that.
I have also read where people did something to these Series 93 OEM valves and uncontrolled flooding resulted. So I am sure not going to pull that loop out until I know more.
Can anyone confirm that they've actually done this and it works as I am reading it?
I am sorry but you need to relable this topic as I am not sure it is PG13 rated.
It sounds like something you need to see a doctor for.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
I wondered about that little white loop myself. Rest assured, it's just a little plug that's in a little holder. You can pull it out without flooding the boat. It's a scary moment, but nothing bad will happen. (if something bad [I]does[/I] happen, just quickly stuff it back in there!)
If fact, the little white thing is probably already loose - try turning and jiggling it. See? It's not even doing anything.
-Erik
C36, 2001 #1939
Monterey, CA
If I'm on the same page here, the little white plug with a ring on it that is located in the seacock handle can be removed to access a screw that allows you to remove the handle or tighten the valve. I have removed it on my raw water intake to tighten the handle, no flooding involved!
Tony Cullen
s/v Sceptre
1995 C-36 MkII 1449 TR/FK
San Diego, CA. (Chula Vista Marina)
I had some experience with the Forespar valve last year and here's what I found out.
The white cap is designed to be used as a plug from the outside. There is a loop on the top to tie a line onto just in case you drop it or to remove it without going into the water.
If you attempt to "service" the seacock in the water without the plug you might learn how much water that seacock actualy keeps out.
The valve handle is an integral part of the seacock and I wouldn't recommend removing it unless you work well under preassure (no pun intended) but it can be done. If you remove the handle, you need to make sure it is lined up with valve. the ball that the screw goes into can shift around and if not aligned you'll be very frustrated until you get it lined up.
FYI, I needed to replace the handle and screw but couldn't find them anywhere. I contacted Forespar and they sent me a handle and screw, N/C.
If you are going to work on them when in the water be ready and have a back up plan just in case.
Good luck!
Gary Welch
Wetlands II, 1995 MarkII #1480
Sailing out of Kenosha, WI
To avoid a possible "flood", can you perhaps plug the hole on the outside of the hull with, say, a wooden plug, and then work on (or replace) the valve?
Ben Ethridge
Miami, FL
1984 MK1 Hull# 263
Thanks for that info Gary. I'm curious what would cause this thing to drip? Didn't think there were any wear parts in there other than the valve itself. We lubed all the seacocks last fall and they turn well. Are there any screws on this that might have backed off and would cause a slow drip? It drips about every 10 seconds. I think I'll wait until the boat comes out next fall, in the meantime we'll just shut it off when not using it. That way I can take the whole unit out and either rebuild it or replace it. I don't like working under pressure when that is water pressure bursting into my boat!
The concern about flooding was I read a post on another forum and they talked about these seacocks being dangerous, if the handle sheared off the shaft the thing supposedly fell apart and water gushed in. But I have searched all over for that and can't find it now, lots of references to earlier models of these seacocks having problems when they were from RC Marine but nothing about uncontrollable flooding with these ones from Forespar.
[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2729.0.html[/url]
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Well, a wealth of information in that post. Thanks Stu!
I think I will just keep a close eye on that thing for now and not try to do anything with it till she comes out in fall and I can see what's what then, probably replace the whole unit at that time. The handle does feel solid on it so likely an o-ring is the problem. I have a package of 10 different sized bungs handy. Our marina doesn't have a haul out, they bring in a crane and if you need it to haul one boat it's $600 each way.
Has anyone had success in freeing up a frozen thru hull. The valve under the sink which is very difficult to get to is stuck in the open position - probably from lack of use. The boat in now on the hard so I now have easy access from the outside. Suggestions ?
Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan
I wouldn't try messing with a stuck valve. It's a "No Brainer," replace the valve... While I was at it I'd consider replacing all of the other valves.
I purchased my boat a few years ago. It was on the hard a few weeks later for bottom paint. While I was checking my raw water valve I turned it a few times and it fell apart in my hand. It was a quick and easy replacement...
Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA
First: I always keep all sea cocks closed unless I'm "using" them. When I leave the boat, I close them all. When I'm sailing I keep all but the raw water intake for the engine closed since water can back up into the sink otherwise.
Second, as far as working under pressure: When I last had my boat hauled, I asked the yard to change my transducer. They changed out the tube it goes into, but left the dummy plug in, rather than installing the new transducer. I had to install it while the boat was in the water. I got everything ready and then pulled the plug (literally).
Whoosh! the water spouted up five feet (or so it seemed). But the boat settled nicely on the bottom. Just kidding - it was no problem installing the new transducer and there wasn't really that much water that came in.
My point is that if you get a substitute plug ready, even if water comes in I, personally, don't think you'll have any problem. Of course, if you live on the East Coast and have to haul your boat every winter, then why not wait?
SF Bay
1998 C36
I got the replacement seacock for this drippy one the other day from Catalina. I didn't know where else to get it, no one sells the OEM ones direct to the public up here. It was kind of an odd experience. They didn't seem to know if they had that one with the two inlets or not. Then they found they did have one, it was about sixty bucks. So I ordered it and eventually it showed up.
The odd part is that when I took it out of the bag it looked used. It was covered in wood dust, and wood dust had gotten in all the ports and stuck to the grease on the ball valve. I spent some time cleaning it up and getting the greasy wood dust out of the valve and now it does look like a new valve. It looks like it had been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a long time. I thought it was a hell of a way to send something out.
I've generally have had very good results when dealing with Catalina though so I'm not really upset about this. One thing I noticed different is on the new one the handle will rotate 180 degrees, the old one only went 90 degrees. I think that's better than the old one.
I recently replaced the one of the Marelon series 93 seacocks in my 1995 MKII, so I can provide some useful information.
The White Plug:
The white plug on the seacock handle is for plugging the seacock from the outside. They do work, and it saved my boat. I left one in for an entire week while I figured out how to replace the broken valve, and it stopped 100% of the water.
The Handle:
The handle on the seacock is attached to the valve ball by a star shaped post on the valve ball. The valve handle is attached to the valve ball by a very small sheet metal screw that threads into the ball. The screw is under the white plug.
This tiny screw is a [B][I]major[/I][/B] failure mode of the valve. It can strip out, allowing the handle to fall off.
[B]IF YOU SEE WATER DRIPPING FROM THE WHITE PLUG, THE SCREW IS LOOSE, AND THE VALVE HANDLE CAN POP OFF AT ANY TIME.[/B]
In addition to opening the ball inside the valve, the valve handle does two important things.
First, it holds the ball in alignment, and provides the pivot point when the ball valve is open. With the handle off, the ball can move around inside the valve body when the valve is open. When the valve is closed, I [I]think [/I]the valve ball is wedged in alignment by the valve seals.
Second, the valve handle has an or-ring that seals handle hole in the valve body.
What to do when the handle breaks off:
If the valve is open and the handle breaks off, there is a direct path to the ocean through the handle hole. What makes this really exciting is that the water pressure immediately causes the ball to rotate in the seat so that the star shaped post is no longer in the center of the handle hole. This prevents the handle from being put back into the valve.
If you are lucky, you can recenter the star shaped post with a small screwdriver, and stick the valve back into the hole. Then, close the valve if you can, or if you can't, hold the handle on with tape or wire ties.
Even if you can't get the valve handle back on the post, sticking the handle in the hole will slow the leak to a trickle, which is an improvement, and it will give you time to think.
Your short term options are:
1) Continue to fiddle with the handle and see if you can get it back on the star shaped post.
2) Use the plug to plug the seacock from below. (This means going for a swim.)
3) Pack the handle hole with epoxy putty, bubble gum or silicone, and then wrap the valve in Rescue Tape. This will not prevent you from replacing the valve later or from installing the plug, unless you pack in enough to get way past the ball valve.
Replacing the valve while the boat is in the water.
New valves are available from Forespar, and the new design is much more robust. Forespar provides instructions for replacing the valve while the boat is in the water. I have done it and it is not that hard. See the thread "Catastrophic Seacock Failure" for the details.
Dave
Ballena 1995 Mk II #1445
Dave,
I have reread your Catastrophic Seacock story again. Pretty nerve racking. How hard was it to remove the seacock under the sink? Is it reachable by removing the drawers? Is going through Catalina the easiest way to get the replacement. My boat is on the hard for the winter and replacing the seacock sounds like a required project before spring launch. Thanks for the comments.
Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan
I purchased my new valve from Forespar. The 93 series is sold to many OEMs so they have most types in stock.
Catalina was kind enough to supply me with the engineering drawing that show the Forespar part numbers for all of the seacocks. You will find that drawing in the Catalina Mk II encycolpedia section.
The valve was easy to replace with the boat in the water, you have good access to the valve with the drawers out.
One thing I should have mentioned in my other posts. If your boat has the clear plastic drain hose attached to the seacock , replace it with a hose rated for below the waterline use.
Dave
Ballena 1995 Mk II #1445
Dave,
Thanks for the reply. This will be another winter project.
Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan