Nearing the end of our Vancouver Island circumnavigation we had the camshaft fail (motorsailing - 1800rpm in Juan de Fuca strait). Indication was a high temp alarm. Shut-down; thought the raw water pump had failed - after sailing into anchorage, discovered end of camshaft broken!
We were able to sail the next day into Victoria harbour where we were able to get parts to do a work-around bypassing the engine-driven pump and utilizing a electric wash-down pump.
Now, my fall project is to replace the shaft. Luckily I have a friend who owns an automotive repair shop; so with his help we will do the repair in October (until then I want to continue using the boat). It appears we can re & re the camshaft by removing the valve cover and the front gearcase cover and not having to remove the head...
I know that our past commodore Duane Ising also had this shaft break - I would be curious how many other M35B engines have experienced this failure??
---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----
--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----
--- 1999 C36 MkII #1776 M35BC ---
We had the issue arise in 2005. At that tine, Westerbeake reported that it had no cam shafts available for repairs and that it was ordering replacements from Japan. Apparently, there was a demand for that part. It had been a warranty issue because Westerbeake had failed to install the collar over the tabs at the end cam shaft and Westerbeake had been covering the cost of repairs. Unfortunately, when our shaft failed, it would only cover the cost of the shaft, but not the labor. The cost for the shaft was about $1,000 at that time. We had a mechanic do the repairs and it was not necessary to remove the head. If I recall correctly, he used a magnet to raise the lifters or rods(?) and held them in place with clothes pins. Duane's idea to use an electric pump for the cooling was ingenious and worked quite well. Sounds like your system also worked. Good luck with your repairs.
David S. Power
Two If By Sea #1687
Burnt Store Marina
Punta Gorda, FL
Thanks David;
That's 3 units at least, that have failed. I guess the main problem is that; although Westerbeke (Universal) sold the engines, the blocks (and camshafts) were made by Kubota... and when contacted Westerbeke/Universal refuses to cover or even discount the price of the part.
BTW - [B]my engine had the collar in place,[/B] but I don't know if from factory or by PO...
---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----
--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----
--- 1999 C36 MkII #1776 M35BC ---
I discover the missing collar when I replaced my raw water pump. It turn out that Westerbeke will mail you a free collar if you email them the serial number of your engine. I received a manual and the collar free.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
Sorry to hear of your breakdown Howard. No breakdown is good but that was pretty good timing near the end of your circumnavigation of the island. Looking forward to a posting or two from you about how things went on your trip and what worked and didn't work on the boat. Tom
Tom Irwin
North Saanich, BC, Canada
1983 Catalina 30 - #3134
Until June 10, 2013
Future Catalina 36 MK II owner
Is the cam not just a a stock Kubota part? If so you likely can get it cheaper and faster from a Kubota dealer. Or did Universal modify it somehow?
That's true - I've already got one on order from Kubota. The price for a camshaft from our local Universal dealer was $1400 - from the Kubota dealer = approx. $500 (haven't got the final bill yet, ordered several gaskets, etc along with it)... Universal/Westerbeke appears to make quite a tidy profit...
And Tom; yes I plan to put in a trip report in the "Cruising" section of the forum - when I get the time (and all the photos together)!
---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----
--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----
--- 1999 C36 MkII #1776 M35BC ---
I found the below article that may be of interest. The short version is that the camshaft on pre-2001 M35B engines may not have adequate support near the water pump and a Sleeve bearing is available is available from Universal:
Missing Camshaft Sleeve on Universal M25XP and M35BC Engines
Phil Rojas
Commodore, Catalina 36 International Association
On November 7, 2002, I spoke personally with Gerry Douglas of Catalina Yachts. A problem was discovered by Westerbeke that concerns many M35B engines - a problem which could cause cam shaft failure.
Once the problem was discovered, Westerbeke/Universal came out with directions on how to check and how to add a 'cam sleeve' to the raw water pump to fix the problem. It's a relatively simple fix, and Westerbeke/Universal will sent owners of all M35B engines the cam sleeve and directions at no charge.
Unfortunately, it's not possible for Catalina to tell exactly which boats, by hull number, are affected. Therefore, Gerry Douglas asked that the Catalina 36 International Association help Catalina Yachts get this word out to Catalina owners with potentially affected engines.
According to a follow-up email received by Catalina's Gerry Douglas: "The best way to determine if the engine is included in the group covered by Westerbeke's Service bulletin #235 is to check the model designation of the engine on the i.d. plate on the engine, the engine is suspect if: (1) There is a 'B' in the model name , i.e.; M35BC, (2) the manufacturing date code is E001 ( January of 2000 ) or older. Older would be D912, D911, D910 , D909, etc. The E= the decade, the next digit is the year of the decade, the last two digits are the month of the decade. (3) These engines may be in 28s, 30s,34s, and 36s,up to and including 2001 model year boats."
Owners of all Catalinas with the M25XPB & M25XPBC and the M35B & M35BC engines (this includes Catalina 28, 30, 320, 34, and 36) are asked to review the service bulletin (click on the graph image below) and check your boat engines to make sure a cam sleeve is in place behind the raw water pump. Steps on getting a cam sleeve (at no cost) from Westerbeke are in the service bulletin.
In the coming months your association will collect M35B information and post data on this website to assist other owners, and to assess the magnitude of the problem.
Both Catalina Yachts. Westerbeke/Universal, and your C36IA want to see this concern checked and corrected as quickly as possible.
Universal/Westerbeke Service Bulletin 235
Problems with water pumps on the X25 and M35 engines may cause camshaft failure - Explanation and graphics enclosed
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg31122.html#msg31122[/url]
We invite all of you to peruse our C34 Critical Upgrades, they apply to your C36s as well. You folks might have something like this of your own, too.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Thanks; but again - the sleeve/collar WAS in place - still managed to break...
---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----
--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----
--- 1999 C36 MkII #1776 M35BC ---
Just back from vacation and catching up...
When the end of our camshaft (hull 1777) failed last spring with about 2700 hours, it also had the sleeve.
Howard, I thought I had mentioned this to you before, but you will need to remove the cylinder head in order to remove the valve lifters (tappets). One possible work around is to use eight very strong magnets to hold the lifters off the cam lobes as you swap out the camshaft. If one drops into the crankcase, however, you are in for a lot more tear-down.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
When we had to have this done a few years ago, I believe our mechanic pulled the lifters up and held them up using clothes pins. He did not have to remove the head.
David S. Power
Two If By Sea #1687
Burnt Store Marina
Punta Gorda, FL
[QUOTE=deising;19319]Just back from vacation and catching up...
When the end of our camshaft (hull 1777) failed last spring with about 2700 hours, it also had the sleeve.
Howard, I thought I had mentioned this to you before, but you will need to remove the cylinder head in order to remove the valve lifters (tappets). One possible work around is to use eight very strong magnets to hold the lifters off the cam lobes as you swap out the camshaft. If one drops into the crankcase, however, you are in for a lot more tear-down.[/QUOTE]
You might consider rare earth magnets. I have several sizes in my wood shop for cabinet doors, and other purposes and they are MIGHTY strong. You can get them in many sizes from Woodcraft [url]http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2081312/30046/Rare-Earth-Magnet-12-x-18-(127mm-x-3mm)-10pcs.aspx[/url]
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
I recently had the dreaded cam shaft failure due to the Sherwood Pump seizing.
removing the gear cover was very easy. I replaced the cam shaft after removing the rocker arm, rods (being careful to keep the original order of the rods) and using magnets to hold the lifters up. The process of using magnets is very simple indeed. They are very strong and will securely hold the lifters in place. You can purchase the telescoping magnets from Harbor Freight ($3.50). I purchased small clips from Home Depot ( 2ea for every magnet ($0.30 ea.). No need to be concerned about pulling the lifter out of their channels as the bottom of the head prevents this.
You can purchase the Kubota engine cam shaft. As you will see in the photo attachments, it is considerably less expensive and rest assured it is the same Camshaft for a lot less.. I have the v1305block. Call Kubota master distributors, be persistent. Attached is a photo of the Kubota P/N's and prices.
Also attached are photos of the magnets along with other related photos.
You will be rotating the drive shaft dozens of turns until one gets all three gears in place with respect to the center idler gear.
Definitely purchase the oil seals for the sleeve that slides on the drive shaft. The sleeve will pop off. Do not slide back on for safe keeping it could easily get stuck as it is a very precise fit and may only be removed using a heat gun. (Voice of experience)
Lastly, do not replace your pump with a Sherwood Pump. Besides being backwards mounted and awkward to replace the impeller; It can and does fail by seizing. Oferdorfer has designed an exact replacement, form, fit and function, for the Sherwood pump. The unit is designed NOT to seize!
My engine now runs perfectly again!
I had the same issue. Replaced the cam shaft without taking the head off. Be glad to help anyone with the job.
Hi Bluzeskies,
I would very much like your advice on this. Despite the excellent earlier posts, I'm still a little unclear on a couple of things.
Firstly, how do you get the magnets down to the tappets? It is a case of sticking them on the the ends of the pushrods?
Secondly, cam positioning is absolutely critical for valve timing. How do you ensure that the camshaft is correctly positioned when feeding the it through the hole in the end of the block?
The Oberdorfer pump started to leak so I decided to install the backup Oberdorfer that I had tested and stored away 5 years earlier. Before I installed I attempted to rotate the pumps shaft to make sure that it worked. To my surprise it was frozen and would not rotate due to dried up salt residue in the crevices.
I avoided an expensive engine repair, yes I have the cam shaft ring. I had to use a hammer to force the pump shaft out, I cleaned and restored and installed.
So, if you haven not turned on your engine for a while, the pump shaft may be seized. Remove the pump and try to turn it by hand to test it and prevent engine damage.
Sail La Vie 1999 Catalina 36 MKII, M35B-17031, Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA
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