My webasto is almost 20 years old and works great, despite a very questionable (some would say terrible) installation by the previous owner. Friend of mine has an Espar in his Express 37 that works fine too. My feeling is there is not much difference between the two and if you get a good deal on one or the other you will be happy.

A hydronic unit would be the only thing I would consider an upgrade from what I have.

My Espar has been super and has not required one bit of maintenance.

Boat Electric in Seattle is a very knowledgeable dealer for Espar and they are great people to do business with. You can't buy from better or more capable people! They sell a marinizing kit that has the circuit breakers and small miscellaneous items boxed up, and a detailed installation manual that answers all of your questions. They are also an authorized Espar overhaul agency so you know where to send it if it needs repair; mine has needed nothing for 9 years.

The D-4 and D-5 were both recommended to me to consider. I recall making a careful decision to not over-buy, and so I purchased the D-4. I have been very pleased with the performance over the last 9 seasons. The D-4 has such power on a C36 that it can drive you out of the boat. One sub-freezing day the first winter I had the furnace I turned it on, fairly high on the thermostat, and then went to breakfast. When I returned an hour later I had to open the boat, turn down the thermostat, and then leave for another cup of coffee to let the boat cool down!

Steve- NIIIIICCCCE! A toasty warm boat to sail in!

Gary, I'm looking at doing something like this as well. I am considering the Wallas units that were mentioned in the other thread. From what I gather the Webasto/Espar types can be noisy, especially the exhaust. Wallas touts comparative quietness as one of their features. Perhaps one of the owners of these units can comment on that.

They price their units with a fairly complete installation kit included and, where I live, they are a better price. They also are designed as purely a marine unit, they claim the others are converted truck units. Being from Finland and even further north than we live, I'm sure they will do the job. Fuel consumption and amp draw seem very reasonable as well.

I'm looking at the 40Dt unit at the moment, it's 16K BTU which may be bigger than we need, we are really only interested in heating the salon. I think they may take more space to install than the Webasto/Espar types though. Exhaust length is limited on the 22Dt and 30Dt models to 6 feet which is a problem, the 40Dt exhaust can be 12 feet so that's another reason why I'm considering it. The external case size of all 3 of them is the same.

Bud, about the exhaust...

The efficiency of these forced air systems depends on keeping the air (wind drag?) resistance throughout the system as low as possible. I say this meaning it in two ways: the ducting throughout the interior of the boat AND the exhaust pipe resistance.

Think of these things as 'baby jet engines', in that, like a jet engine on an airplane, it is cooled by the air flowing *through* it; not by the air flowing over it, as would be a piston engine on an airplane. Therefore, the performance and reliability will be best if the ducting throughout the boat has the least air resistance AND that the exhaust have the least air resistance. Thus, you will want to keep your exhaust run to a minimum, preferably less than three feet. Another consideration is that the exhaust is not a rubber hose, it is a stainless steel pipe - flexible, in my boat's case - that gets extremely hot. My deck brush got in contact with the pipe and got liquified.

Hello Gary
I chose the Wallas after having one in a previous boat. It was a 30D in a Catalina 310, did a fine job heating the boat on a medium setting and very quiet (after having an Ardic Mini-Max once upon a time). Have not ever had nor listened to an Espar or Webasto, so have no opinion to offer on them.
The really neat thing about the latest Wallas models is they have a dual mode control - either set at a fixed heat output (which the 30D had) or on a thermostat. I don't sleep well at anchor and the continuous cycling is not attractive to me. I'm not convinced that cycling on and off is particularly good for any piece of equipment, especially with these units' complex shut down and start up routines.
Doug at Scan Marine in Seattle said the C36 is on the break point for the Wallas 30 or 40 series heaters. Since the house bank on my boat is only a pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries, and there is refrigeration, the minimum higher amp draw on the 40Dt was of some concern. I sail in Puget Sound and (until this winter) prolonged below freezing temps are uncommon. Thus the 30Dt.
Am waiting to get my 87 C36 Mk I out of the yard after completing a few post survey repairs. I live in southeastern Oregon and the boat is in Gig Harbor. Am anxious to pull the old Ardic exhaust and combustion air hoses out to see if the 6-7 foot max run for the 30Dt will work. Otherwise, I'll have to upgrade to the 40Dt with the longer allowable run. IMHO, the aft cockpit locker in the Mk I is a rather dicey place for anything containing electronics. Am hoping that the space behind the portside sliders in the aft cabin, where the Ardic lived, will reach the transom within the allowable distance.
If anyone has installed one of these heaters in the Mark I's aft cockpit locker, I'd enjoy being enlightened as to their experience.
I have the 30Dt on order, but it will not ship until I verify if it or the 40Dt is the one to get.
Regards Larry's caution about the hot pipe, I will be really disappointed (not the first time) if the Wallas units' "pipe within a pipe" design gets hot enough to cause concern, but I do completely agree with him about the shorter run the better. Supposedly, the exhaust is the inside of the pipe, surrounded by the combustion air pipe. The old Ardic had two pipes, one for exhaust that was wrapped in heavy insulation and another running parallel to it that was flexible corrugated aluminum with the nasty habit of corroding itself in two.
Hope this is helpful.
Would be curious to know which one you get, any issues with the install, and how you like it.
Regards,
Jack

Jack, check this thread out:

[url]http://www.c36ia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1064[/url]

Post #8 shows a picture of Mark's install of a Wallas unit in the location you are thinking of I believe.

The 40Dt doesn't use a double walled pipe, it is single wall which I found really odd given that the 22 and 30 both use double walled pipe. The 40 gets its combustion air from one of the intake vents that is supposed to bring in outside air. I quizzed the distributor up here on that point and he confirmed it is single wall and told me the exhaust pipe does not get hot enough to cause any problems. I find it hard to believe it couldn't get pretty darn hot given what it's doing so I'm kind of suspicious on this at the moment. He also told me that realistically if you can't use a transom exhaust you pretty much need to go with a through deck exhaust, the side of the hull is not a good option.

Bud
I should not rely on memory for such things. You are correct about the exhaust/combustion air piping differences on the Wallas 30Dt and 40Dt models.
Thank you for being so gracious in bringing this to what currently serves as my limited attention.
Just got off the phone with Doug at Scan Marine in Seattle.
He contends that the exhaust for the 40Dt is single walled and placed in an insulated sock. If you grabbed the sock and squeezed it with the unit running at full power, there would be enough heat to convince you to let go. This is consistent with Larry's experience with his liquefied boat brush.
Apparently some thought should be given to routing the 40Dt's exhaust hose and what it contacts. Doug thought that fiberglass would not be a problem, wood over a long term might become noticeably dry, and running the sock up against some types of plastics might not be such a good idea. I'm not sure how comfortable to feel about this, but maybe it's not much different with the Espar and Webasto?
Doug said that with the 30Dt, they were recommending its combination exhaust/combustion air hose also be in a sock for a belt and suspenders approach.
The photo in the thread you supplied is exactly where the old Ardic Mini-Max was located and where I hope to install the Wallas unit.
Thanks
Jack

Jack,

One thing to consider as you install the Wallas is the placement (fore-aft). If I recall, mine is mounted about as far aft as possible. As the cheeks of the hull slope inward, you loose depth for placement of the unit which mounts on a bracket. It's a bit of a tight squeeze in there, but it does work. I've attached a picture of the bracket the unit hangs from before I installed it. I was lucky there was already a spot for me to attach the bracket to since there was a little shelf that the old inverter/charger sat on.

Mark

Nice job on the bracket, especially the standoff washers to keep the unit away from the plywood.
I will build a cardboard mock-up to see how far aft the Wallas unit can go and hopefully reach the 6-7' max pipe run. The transom shouldn't be that far, but I'm not sure about the bends the pipe needs to make since the stack comes out of the top of the case and they want a rise in the pipe before it exits the boat.
Had hoped the Wallas would fit where the Ardic used to be, and use the existing mounting bracket, but that remains to be seen.
Do you recall the model you installed and how satisfied you are with the way it heats the boat? Where did you put the control? Any other issues to consider?

Thanks
Jack

Jack,

I've got model 40D. The control unit is at the nav station. I'm happy with the performance. It's very nice to have heat!!