You may consider not continuing to crank the started if the engine will not start with the raw water through hull open . This will cause the engine to fill up with water. Close the raw water intake for the engine - but be sure to open it as soon as the engine starts. You can bleed the fuel lines at the high pressure fuel pump to let the air out. There must be an instruction manual for the engine,

Paul,
Yes, the clicking sound was the Facet fuel (lift) pump. If the clicking sound has stopped, then the pump is not working. Why do you say the pump was still running? No clicking, no fuel. It may be a bad connection to the pump, but they do not have an infinite life. To fill up both filters with fuel, it would have taken a few minutes with the fuel (lift) pump clicking like crazy. After a few minutes, if you close the bleed screw, you will still get a click every other second or so. Sounds like you may need a new fuel (lift) pump. Haro is correct about both the seacock and bleeding, but there is no need to crack the high pressure lines. The bleed screw should get the air out, if the lift pump is working.

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2515.15.html[/url]

This is the second page, you might want to read the whole topic.

You should also pop the bottom of the pump to see if its filter is clogged. If you haven't yet replumbed the fuel lines: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg32616.html#msg32616[/url]

My experience is that you have to crack the screw on the secondary fuel filter to fully bleed that one. Others haven't, but that's what I do.

There should be a drain on the muffler, I would just drain it to be sure. Not a fan of closing the seacock, those impellers will not run dry very long without damage.

Also, re Stu's first link, believe the discussion there is about the new style black plastic Facet pumps being junk? I put one of them on last fall and it is still working fine, they come in two different pressure ratings but either works, at least with a Mark II anyway. Up here they are about 1/4 the cost of the old style canister pumps so I bought two to have a spare, accidentally got 1 of each pressure rating, that's how I know they both work.

Bud, thanks for the report on the black plastic pump. My PO gave me a second Facet pump which I put in maybe six years ago, so the first one lasted almost 20 years! I do have the black one as a backup.

That discussion I linked never did have the followup from anyone who has used one.

Thanks again.

The part number for the Fuel lift pump is Universal ( Or Westerbeke) 039275 for 12VDC. My engine is Universal M35B.Here is an other number that may help you- Fuel Pump: NAPA/Facet #610-1051. I would imagine that they are all the same. It was $ 175.00. I replaced it because I thought it was causing a problem - but it turned out to be something else. There was a thimble size metal screen filer included with it that the original pump did not include. I ordered it from
Transpacific Distributor
941 Waters Court
Fairfield, CA. 94533
707 426-6670
707 426-0206 fax
[url]www.marinegate.com[/url]
[email]info@marinegate.com[/email]

Let us know if it worked.

610-1051 is the black plastic one ($51). 610-1074 is the original canister style unit ($144). You can get them from NAPA at those prices and as I mentioned they are available in at least 2 pressure ratings.

Paul, when we bought our boat in 1998 I, too, put off the filter replacement for a looong time because I was deathly afraid of bleeding the engine. Although there were good descriptions of how to do it on the marinedieseldirect website and in the voluminous [I]Mainsheet [/I]articles I had (my PO gave me all the [I]Mainsheets [/I]he had since 1987), I was still afraid!!!

But once I did it, I found the filter almost completely clogged and had a lot of cleanup of the bowl. That said, the engine was still running.

Before you start worrying about removing your fuel, I'd replace the filter and see what's really inside, run the engine for far longer than you usually do and check the bowl, or do a second primary filter replacement (now that you'll know exactly what to do) and see if it's cleaner inside. If it is clean, then just put it back on.

When I did my second filter replacement a year later, the guts of the filter were still very clean.

I usually fill our tank up when it gets half full, use biocide, water treatment and Stabil.

If you have the old Facet pump, try some PB Blaster on the bottom of the filter housing, then use a wrench to unscrew it, there's a big bump on the bottom of the filter for just that purpose.

One of our C34 gurus, Ron Hill, strongly recommends that when one does some work on the boat that requires two steps, do one step first. 'Cuz if you have a problem, you'll never know which of the two things you did that went wrong. So, do your primary change first, bleed the engine, and run it, and only then do the secondary filter swap.

Here's a link to my "Bleeding 101" topic: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6377.0.html[/url]

[QUOTE=stu jackson c34;10391]One of our C34 gurus, Ron Hill, strongly recommends that when one does some work on the boat that requires two steps, do one step first. 'Cuz if you have a problem, you'll never know which of the two things you did that went wrong. [/QUOTE]

Now and then I don't follow that advice, Stu, but 'isolating the variables' is pretty much always a good idea. Thanks for the reminder.

Paul,

I have been following this post and would like to to give my input.

Yes the pumps have a finite life but, I would want to make sure it is at fault before replacing it as our boats always provide us with a list of things to do, no since in doing needless items. First you comment as to the pump running but not clicking, understand that this pump has no motor. It operates when powered by activating a solenoid this magneticly pulls a plunger that drives a diaphragn, when it gets to full throw, the electrical connection breaks the the cycle repeats. If you hear no clicking the pump is either not powered or already at its maximum pressure at which time the solenoid no longer has enough force to over come the pressure on the diaphragm.

Before replacing the pump I would suggest two trouble shooting suggestions.
First use a voltmeter and verify that the pump is getting power. If it is and the pump is not running you need to make sure that you have not reclogged your filters restricting the flow, this could be from a clogged screen in the fuel pump itself or reclogged filters. If the filters are clogged you can verify by loosening the supply line to the filter with power on the pump and see if it comes on after opening the inlet line to the filter, you may want to check the screen on the pump itself first. If you noted a lot of sludge when you changed your filters you may have sludge build up in your tank and may have reclogged the filters.

When bleeding the system the the little thumb wheel that allows the fuel deliverd to the engine injector pump to be returned to the tank. This usually works well but, if a lot of air has been induced you may need to crack the B nuts on the injectors them self as the bleeder knob only purges the system up to the injector pump and you may need to purge the air out of the high pressure side of the system.

The fact that you do not hear the pump clicking could suggest a bad pump but, if you have heavy fuel contamination or reclogged filters changing a pump needlessly will just add more time and expense and distract you from the core problem.

Paul,

There is a replaceable filter inside of the fuel pump. There is also a small flat round magnet on the bottom of the fuel pump filter canister. It just sits there as part of the pump. Don't accidentally toss that out when replacing the filter! Without the magnet the pump will not work. A clogged fuel pump filter might be part of the problem?

Chris

[quote=pmeyers;10408] Since my secondary filter is only half full, it seems possible that there is a blockage before that point (or the pump stopped working.)[/quote]

Paul, my experience has been that you NEED to remove the nut on the top of the secondary filter to bleed the system. If you remove the nut, are you getting fuel? If so, then you don't have a blockage (up to that point at least). So, I'm not sure why your sec filter is only half full. How'd you find that out?

Here's a tip for guys that have never changed the fuel filters before. Wear rubber gloves otherwise the diesel smell says on your hands for days.

Paul, I understand that you tried to bleed the engine, it didn't work and you removed the secondary filter to see if it was full? Is that right?

I recommend you go back and read the "Bleeding 101" link I provided, for your M25, at least in MY experience, you NEED to remove the nut on the top of the secondary filter bracket to get that filter to fill up. Some skippers have reported they can get away without doing that, but I have not been able to do so in 13 years.

What you've shown in your photo is what we call the "knurled knob" in our bleeding discussions.
It's a separate thing from the nut on the secondary filter.

Paul,

I would agree with Stu on the full bleeding task.

The knurled knob Stu speaks of I do not see in the picture attached to your post. It in fact returns the the fuel delivered to the injector pump back to the tank, leaving it open with the pump running is usually enough to bleed the system. Cracking the nut on the fuel line shown will also purge the air out of the system UP TO THE INJECTOR PUMP, but will make a mess as the fuel and air pour out of that location. The injector pump will often self bleed if you can get the engine to start, the engine will surg a bit, though you may need to bleed the nozzles by cracking their "B" nuts with the engine running to purge the air out of the injector pump and lines.

I am curious about the picture you posted, is that one you pulled from our site or an actual picture of your engine. It is a four cylinder injector and your boat came with a three cylinder M25XP.

Paul, one trick I learned was to install a fuel pump cutoff switch (simple toggle switch in the fuel pump ground wire - extended wires over to the engine space) in the engine room. That way you can easily turn the fuel pump off when you have that screw removed, or else (unless you have a helper in the cockpit at the ignition switch) you spill a lot of fuel. Some use the 1-2-B switch but that still requires you to leave the engine for a second or two. I find it's easier to just reach over and click the toggle switch.

Glad to hear of your success and good of you to report your findings.

Great thread saved me $$.

I was mid channel motoring"banging" to the Channel Islands for weekend in a short steep chop when the motor just stopped.

when I went to restart with glowplugs and fuel pump engaged I did not hear fuel pump clicking noise.

So I sailed all the way back to the harbor launched the dighy side tied it to the boat and tug boat willy'ed her back to her slip.

I then got on your website to trouble shoot problem.

I was dircted to check filter in the pump, which I did not even know a filter was located and low and be hold all kinds of little white paint chip like particles were in the little coffee like filter.

I tapped it clean reinstalled and wala the pump stated clicking bleed it and fired right up!!

I suspect that the choppy conditions loosened up some gunk in the tank and clogged.

Weekend saved along with marraige!

Cat 36 II 1996
Hull# 1553

Glad to hear you are getting your money's worth out of the C36IA. BUT, it sounds like you have a fuel system clean-up chore to do before you next leave the dock.

Does anybody have an idea what frequency the facet fuel lift pump must click on an M35 engine? After different problems it now clicks very slowly at about a rate of 20 clicks per second. Is that perhaps to slow? If I open the air bleed valve it will click much faster, no fuel will come out though after then seconds. If I close the valve the pump slows down again. Strange, anyone got a clue? Do I need to bleed the engine much longer perhaps?
The engine starts up quite easily, so no problem there. But the other day it died twice after hours of using it, but after a few minutes waiting it started again with a lot of clicking of the fuel lift pump. That is why I started to work on bleeding on advice of my mecanic who is now not nearby unfortunately. 

Perhaps your lift pump is failing.
Mine was replaced several years ago after a "stall" in the marina.
Lift pump was Lift  Pump 7.0-4.
No issues since.