I have tried new sails, tightening the forstay to max, rig tuning etc, But my 1996 Mk II will not point as well as any MK I or any 34. Are there any suggestions.
Oh say, no weather helm.
Dan G.
—
Daniel H Golembiewski
I have tried new sails, tightening the forstay to max, rig tuning etc, But my 1996 Mk II will not point as well as any MK I or any 34. Are there any suggestions.
Oh say, no weather helm.
Dan G.
Daniel H Golembiewski
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That is one thing I would like to know as well. I can point up to 30 degrees to port and 60 to starboard. Others do much better. I do not have folding prop.
I have tuned my standing rigging.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
First of all, in light winds super tight forestay is the enemy. My rig is super dooper loose and last night we led a J/35 and a J/105 around the race course for half an hour until the wind dropped from 6 down to about 3 knots.
Second, the problems with the Catalina 36 (any model) going upwind are largely balance related. If you have no weather helm that is an indicator of the problem.
I have dramatically solved the pointing issue on my boat by making the boom almost 2' longer and adding a bigger mainsail. This puts some load on the back half of the boat and allows the rudder to operate in 'lift' mode with some weather helm. We point with the average race boats in our fleet and can go extra high for a bit when we need to squeeze somebody on the race course. It does work.
Now, lets say the sane among us do not want to add a long boom and new main and all the little tweaks that come with that?
First step is rake. I still want to add more rake to my mast even after the mods, so I am going to suggest that the boat in stock form should have about 6" of rake (that is, hang a plumb bob from the main halyard and it should meet the boom about 6" aft of the gooseneck). Actually I suspect it should be more than that but that's where I would start.
When you don't have weather helm these boats are constantly slipping sideways even if you manage to get the bow pointed to match the boat next to you.
When you start to get a bit of weather helm you will know you are on the right track.
What else...
A soft jib halyard may help you point but makes the boat very hard to drive fast. Assuming your sails are OK I would go with middle of the road halyard tensions and rig tensions.
Bottom cleaning: like a folding prop, the clean bottom will help the boat reach the speed (around 3.5 knots in my case) where the keel foil begins to really work. On top of this, if there is any fouling on the keel itself the foil performance will be significantly impaired and you still will not be able to point worth a damn. $150 to your local diver will make a much larger difference in performance than $5000 to your sailmaker for nearly all sailboats. The rudder is an important foil in this regard also and because it gets more sun it tends to accumulate growth faster.
Jib cars: Almost every Catalina I have seen cruising in the PNW has the jib cars too far forward. The tracks typically don't extend far enough aft to begin with and then most sailmakers sell high-clewed genoas to their cruising clients, which need the leads even further aft to work. If the lead is too far forward the leach of the sail will close, the foot will be too round, and the sail will stall. This in turn causes lee helm and we are back to item 1 of my list. Fast genoa trim on my boat has the foot of the genoa creased and pressed flat against the shrouds, and the mid leech about 8" off the end of the spreader tips. This combined with a boom on centerline and a little bit of twist in the main, and away we go.
Baysailor, I would suggest your instruments are leading you astray as I have never come across a tack-to-tack discrepancy that large over the dozens if not hundreds of boats I have sailed on.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
This is my horrible cruising jib that should be burned, not one of the two decent genoas I have but...
Not shown is that the UV cover along the foot is pressed hard against the shrouds.
[IMG]http://www.sailingx.com/photopost/data/509/medium/20130401_133627.jpg[/IMG]
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Although it should be impossible I have as it appears have gotten to about 20 degrees and I have astounded 2 friends who have tried to follow me into the wind. Just a few weeks ago I went up through the Thread of Life (So Bristol, Maine) with the wind coming almost straight down the channel and I made it through without a tack. (With these two friends on board ...they will testify)
As to tuning I just do the normal things as anyone else would I have a 155 Genoa about 10 years old and and a full batten main about 7 yrs. old. I did not have the sheets as tight as normal when they are chasing me. I usually bring the boom beyond center towards the wind as well. I do usually have the sheet so tight you could play a chord and my older friend just shutters when I do.
I have a fin keel and I think you may be experiencing some of the effects of a wing keel....is that right?
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine
Boom is actually above centerline here, you can do this as long as you ease the main so that the top batten is parralel to the centerline of the boat (twist) and you are running a genoa that is at least 135% LP (the overlap keeps the bottom of the main flowing in this situation).
[IMG]http://www.sailingx.com/photopost/data/509/medium/20130401_133525.jpg[/IMG]
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
[IMG]http://www.sailingx.com/photopost/data/509/medium/20130401_133622.jpg[/IMG]
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
And of course, fixed prop and/or wing keel means you will never have satisfactoy upwind performance. But the same tricks should still help. With the wing keel I'd be trying to got the boat going 4 knots to get the keel working before I worried much about pointing.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Nimue - If the boom is past the center-line - did you move the car on the traveler to windward side? By "rake" - do you mean that the mast is leaning to the aft by 6" of that it is bent aft 6"?
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
believe he means raked by tightening the back stay against forward shroud yo can acheive a bend in the mast. An adjustable backstay adjuster will help acheive the same. Generally a bit of rake aft helps. To bring the boom past center you need to adjust the traveler than you can adjust the main sheet for the proper twist.
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine
rake is rake - leaning aft.
Bend is bend - good luck with that on a C36!
They are not at all the same thing.
Traveller car lives approximately 9-10" to windward going upwind.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
I actually have a true bend in my mast - I was actually a little concerned when I first bought the boat.
Jason - I can take pics if you don't believe me... ;)
---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----
--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----
--- 1999 C36 MkII #1776 M35BC ---
[IMG]http://www.c36ia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1578&stc=1&d=138...
This was taken this weekend from a J/29 which we subsequently out-pointed. By the end of this tack we were in the same relative position on their windward side.
All I can say from looking at it is that we are carrying the boom really high - looks like almost a foot to weather of centerline.
The main sheet is not that tight - the top of the sail is open but the bottom has that hook to weather. I think that's the trick.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Great photo. Nice trim....!
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor