Mark II: Additional shore power inlet

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FlyMeAway
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Mark II: Additional shore power inlet

I'm thinking of installing a second shore power inlet in the anchor locker. It would connect to a circuit panel at the forward end of the v-berth, above that shelf. The idea would be to run 15V AC plug circuits, with one new outlet at the forward end of the berth plus re-wiring the outlet at the aft end of the berth, above the hanging locker. I'd like to be able to run a bit more electrical heating power while at the dock -- the 20 degree nights we've been having in Seattle have meant burning a bit more diesel for the hydronic than I'd like.

Would love some overall opinions on this, including (but not limited to!) specific thoughts on:
+ How much room is there behind the wooden panel at the forward end of the berth? I think this is where one accesses the windlass and its workings sit
+ Advisability of a shore power plug in the v-berth locker
+ If the plug gasket leaked, does that area drain to the bilge?

Thanks!

David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA

William Matley's picture
William Matley
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Posts: 167

David,

I did this on my boat and is one of the best changes I have done.

The anchor locker houses the connector and I ran the wire back to the V berth hanging locker, up high in the locker. Here, I installed a new main shutoff switch and circuit breaker and from there to the circuit panel. Then I disconnected the rear power connection from the power panel so that the rear connection is never "live".

I had thought that some day I'd activate the aft connector by installing a 110 volt outlet in the aft berth, again so that I could have 2 separate circuits, but so far I just don't need the extra power.

Having to use only a 25 foot power cord from the anchor locker to the marina power is a huge deal. Hauling that big cable out on the deck, winding it up and storing it is no fun!

I say, "do it" be safe and you'll never regret your upgrade.

Bill Matley
Duncan Bay Boat Club
Cheboygan, Michigan
Lakes Huron, Michigan,
Canadian North Channel
"Spirit of Aloha" Hull #1252

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plaineolde
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Posts: 753

I may just be paranoid, but I'd want a circuit breaker/shutoff switch a lot closer to that new shore power plug. Someone else (Mainsail?) may know the details, but if I recall correctly, ABYC specifies a fairly short run of wire between the plug and the breaker/switch. On the stern of my MkII, there's only a couple feet of unprotected wire max, between the stern shorepower plug and the breaker/switch in the starboard lazarette.

Just my 2 cents.

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

mogline's picture
mogline
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Posts: 47

First rule; don't try this yourself if you are not very familiar with AC wiring. Second rule; don't ignore the first rule. 120 AC kills. Having said that, here's how:
After you disconnect from shore power - no 120V live anywhere on the boat;
1) Install a 30A inlet in the anchor locker. You will need to remove the wood panel at the end of the V berth.
2) Install a 30A two pole breaker close to the inlet. You can get and should use a small panel with reverse polarity indicator lights (or just make your own). Blue Sea makes a small panel that is perfect for this application.
3) Install a galvanic isolator (check out the Yandina).
4) Use marine 10-3 cable to wire. Do not use the solid copper romex you get at Home Depot! Route cable back from the forward panel to the main electrical panel.
5) Install a rotary transfer switch near the main panel. We put ours inside the locker on starboard just in front of the panel, so we open the locker to switch between forward or aft power inlets. Reroute the cable coming in from the aft inlet to the transfer switch. Blue Sea makes a transfer switch to change power source from shore power to generator - it works well for this purpose. Use of this switch is critical! Otherwise you can have live terminals at the inlet you are not using for power - a lethal risk.
It is convenient to have a shore power inlet up front and to only need a 25' shore power cable to connect. We normally just disconnect from the shore power and coil the cable in the anchor locker, leaving it connected to the inlet in the anchor locker.
This is not a hard project, but don't cut corners. You can escape from most 12V goofs, but 120AC is a very different animal, especially when you put it on a boat.

Mike Ogline
SHADOW #1831
2000 SR/WK
Deltaville - Chesapeake Bay

FlyMeAway
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Posts: 241

Sorry! Should have clarified:
1) Circuit panel = multiple circuit breakers (mains plus distribs). Not sure how that got lost. So per plainolde's point, the two will be about 6-12 inches apart. You don't need a separate master breaker if the main breaker is that close.
2) Initial project plan is *NOT* to connect this to the other A/C. I want another 30 amps to run two circuits @ ~8-12 amps of heater power each. Mainsail will disagree, but I'll tell you that in residential wiring ~85-90% sustained loads are common in new wiring (that's how you run a 1500 watt heater on a 15 amp circuit, for six months), provided that everything is properly rated. Marine wiring can't be that different in terms of the loads. Of course I'll use the way more expensive stuff sold by Defender or Fisheries.

The Galvanic Isolation point is a GREAT one that I had totally forgotten about. Increases the cost of the project quite a bit...

I spent most of college and some of high school doing running electrical in the the theater. I know A/C and I've seen someone shocked back 10 feet. I approach A/C very carefully; I'm still considering having someone else do this work...

David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA

FlyMeAway
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Posts: 241

Follow-up question: does anybody have photos of what it looks like behind the forward bulkhead on a Mk II? I just want to know what I'm looking at before I start this project...

David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA

mogline's picture
mogline
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Posts: 47

Maybe I didn't understand the question. Is idea to have two separate AC systems, keeping original with inlet off the stern and using the new system just to power extra outlets forward to use with freestanding heaters? If so, and circuits kept totally isolated from the other AC/DC and ground circuits galvanic protection may not be so important. Either way, take a look at the Yandia isolator. You can usually get one for around $100. It doesn't have the warning lights, so may not be fully up to ABYC standards, but at that price...

Mike Ogline
SHADOW #1831
2000 SR/WK
Deltaville - Chesapeake Bay

neilroach
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Posts: 126

David, from what I know what you are doing that all sounds doable and safe. I am wondering about the need for an isolator if the system is isolated electrically from the main system, particularly the main system ground. It sounds like just adding outlets forward would not have continuety with anything that is in contact with salt water. This may not mean anything and I may be missing something so I would get some advice. On that note if you get everything opened up forward there is a very good marine electricien who lives on a boat a couple of fingers north of you. I have hired him to help me design a couple of things. He did schematics, helped with a parts list and then came back and blessed my work. The cost was very low and was totally worth it. In addition as he and his wife are living only a couple of hundred feet from you on a sailboat, he may have some other strategies for not freezing. The marina office has his phone number, and his name is Widenhauer(sp)
I was living on my boat in 2010 during a worse cold snap, not fun. Take heart, it will be warmer next week.

Neil Roach
"Crewless"
1992 36, Mark I
Hull # 1174
Seattle

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plaineolde
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Posts: 753

Here's a pic I took when I was preparing to install a new VW1500 windlass. This is with the stock V500.

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

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Nimue's picture
Nimue
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Posts: 429

ABYC standard is to have a 30A double pole breaker within 10 feet of the shore power inlet plug, and then you'd want a 15A breaker powering your outlets. I'd put the breaker up close to the connector, and then run the power back to your main circuit panel so that your power connection is seamless whether you are on the aft or forward AC connection.

The other consideration, if you use one, is that this plug will be bypassing any galvanic isolator you have. I added one this year and it has doubled (or better) the life of my zincs, so if I was adding a second AC connection I would probalby add a second one of these as well.

As for that front panel of the V-berth, on my mk 1 there is only 1" behind it, but if you have a mark 2 with a windlass you will have a different setup from me.

Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada

FlyMeAway
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[QUOTE=neilroach;20659]The marina office has his phone number, and his name is Widenhauer(sp)[/QUOTE]

Ridenour. That's Bob, my immediate next-door neighbor. After learning from a few rough starts (viz., him coming by and pointing out how I could have done things better) I seek his blessing on pretty much all of my work :-)

Thanks everybody for your help and suggestions! Now I just need to decide whether to get this project off the ground.

David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA

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BrentF
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Posts: 52

I ran a second shore power inlet next to my existing port side inlet some years ago to power my air conditioning unit. I didn't do it right as I don't have the breaker within 10' of the inlet. Catalina didn't build the boat to meet that standard either since the main panel is by the starboard nav station.

Anyway I am looking at adding a main breaker in the galley with the breaker panel backing into the port cockpit locker where the adler-barbour 12v unit and charger are. Since it is open I got a panel backer shell. Anyone else done it this way? I would preferred to add it to the existing panel but that wouldn't meet the standard.

Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX

deising's picture
deising
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FYI - my 1999 model has a breaker inside the stbd lazarette, within inches of the two 30A shore power connectors (one for house, one for A/C). The house circuit has an additional breaker at the nav station panel.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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HowLin
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[QUOTE=deising;20741]FYI - my 1999 model has a breaker inside the stbd lazarette, within inches of ... The house circuit has an additional breaker at the nav station panel.[/QUOTE]

Ditto; 'cept no a/c

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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plaineolde
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Posts: 753

So does mine (no A/C; yet).

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

BrentF's picture
BrentF
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Posts: 52

I am guessing that somewhere after 1987 the 10' rule for a breaker was added and that Catalina switched to adding the breaker in the lazarette. My original shore power was located on port even though the main panel is starboard. I think I will look into adding a breaker for both.

Question - is your breaker surface mounted in a watertight box or how is it configured?

Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX

stu jackson c34's picture
stu jackson c34
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Posts: 1270

Blue Sea makes a 1331 (IIRC), just came up on co.com

[url]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1077732&highl...

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

deising's picture
deising
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Posts: 1351

Brent, my lazarette circuit breaker doesn't look as fancy as the one Stu posted in the link, but it appears to be hidden well from water intrusion high up in the lazarette. Not sure how well it is sealed, but if it gets submerged, I have bigger problems. :)

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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