VW500 windlass and 5/16" chain

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rtrinkle
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VW500 windlass and 5/16" chain

I've been reading alot of info on this site regarding the Maxwell VW500 anchor windlass. I also see this windlass is designed for 1/4" chain. Is there a 5/16" chain plate for this windlass?

I think a 1/4" chain, is strong enough for out boat but would feel safer with the 5/16" chain already on board. The shackle for 1/4" chain is too small to attach to the anchor and the WLL is 1500 lbs. The shackle that fits the anchor is too big for 1/4" chain.

I'm looking for a good solution, but don't want to spend the amount of money to get another windlass at this time.

Is there a chainwheel that fits a 5/16" chain for this windlass?

or

Is there a better solution to get the 1/4" chain to attach to our CQR anchor?

Thanks in advance,

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

BudStreet
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Posts: 1127

I asked Maxwell that question and they said there is no chain wheel bigger than 1/4" for the 500. I put in a 1000, it is a pretty simple upgrade on the early Mk II, you just need to cut the hole for the windlass slightly bigger. Have been using the OEM wiring and it works just fine.

In terms of shackles, I use Crosby galvanized industrial shackles. They are far stronger than marine shackles.

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rtrinkle
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Yes, I read about your upgrade to the 1000. At this time, we are trying to stay away from spending that kind of money on another windlass.

Our current configuration is a plow CQR anchor (not sure of the weight, but looks to be about the same as the Suncor Plowmaster 25 lb, however, ours is galvanized) with 20' of 5/8" chain and 250' of 5/16" rode. We would like to transfer this chain and rode to the secondary fortress anchor, and put the 1/4" chain on the plow anchor, with say 9/16" rode, and use it as our working anchor. Do you think this is acceptable for the lower Chesapeake? According to the West Advisor, this should be enough for the C36, but I think I would trust the advise of a knowledgable C36 owner over the West Advisor.

Are the Crosby shackles readily available? We have an additional 30' of 1/4" HT Galvanized High Test Chain, grade 40. It does fit the windlass, but not installed.

So, if we do decide to use the 1/4" chain on our working, plow anchor would a Crosby shackle fit both the anchor and chain? Like I said before, the shackle we currently have that does fit the 1/4" chain is a 3/4 ton, 5/16" shackle, and is too small for the anchor. I believe it to be a marine grade galvanized shackle from West Marine. I think widening the open end of the shackle to fit the anchor would degrade the strength.

Thinking outside the box, has anyone ever made the end of the chain into a loop and shackled it back to itself. Creating an eye that attaches to the anchor? Not sure if that's a good idea, as it might weaken the chain, just another thought.

Sorry to be taling in circles, just alot of thoughts going through my brain at one time.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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TomSoko
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Robert,
How about using two shackles? Both 5/16 and 1/4? 5/16 on the anchor, 1/4 on the chain???

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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rtrinkle
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dugh,,, and long silence,,,,,, that's why I love this site.... I will see if the new shackle will fit into the shackle already in use.

Do you thing 3/4 ton working load shackle (which is 5/16") and 1/4" chain is acceptable for the C36? Along with 9/16" rode?

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

BudStreet
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Posts: 1127

Crosby shackles are available from industrial riggers. Google is your friend, it will give you links to Crosby's site, their catalogs and dealer list. Their catalogs will show you dimensional drawings of their shackles, you can use that to find and determine if a particular shackle will fit your chain and anchor. You can also pair two different sized shackles if there is a big size difference between the anchor and the chain.

IMHO, your plow ground tackle is lighter than I would be comfy with regardless of location. I wish I had bought more chain mostly because 100' is often not enough in some of the deep anchorages (30-35 feet) we frequent. Your fortress might be OK, as long as it's known to work well in your area, but you didn't mention the size of it. I would prefer to be oversized when talking ground tackle. If you don't anchor out much, or if you're in really well protected anchorages you might be OK, but we pretty much live on the anchor in summer in some pretty open anchorages so it's heavier than some would consider necessary.

Is your rope rode double braid or 3 strand? If it's not double braid then I personally think it's too small. We have 5/8" double braid, if it was 3 strand I'd go 3/4", our snubbers are 3/4" 3 strand because I can splice that myself. I also use Crosby hooks on our snubbers, I am trying to avoid a weak link anywhere in the anchor system.

I'm not familiar with anchoring in the Chesapeake so maybe someone from that area can weigh in. The reading I did when we were planning on going south I seem to recall indicated it was a lot of soupy mud which I would think would favour a danforth type anchor over a plow?

I consider the amount money I spent on ground tackle to be among the best money I have ever spent. It's not a place to cut corners, IMHO.

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deising
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[QUOTE=rtrinkle;17155]Our current configuration is a plow CQR anchor (not sure of the weight, but looks to be about the same as the Suncor Plowmaster 25 lb, however, ours is galvanized) with 20' of 5/8" chain and 250' of 5/16" rode. [/QUOTE]

I am not sure this is helpful, but I can't believe you had 5/8" chain and 5/16" rode. Are you sure you don't have 5/16 chain and 5/8 nylon rode?

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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rtrinkle
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[QUOTE=deising;17160]I am not sure this is helpful, but I can't believe you had 5/8" chain and 5/16" rode. Are you sure you don't have 5/16 chain and 5/8 nylon rode?[/QUOTE]

Alrighty then,, I'm starting to get myself confused. You are correct. 5/16" chain and 5/8" 3 strand rode.

We do tend to anchor out alot during the warmer months (May - Sept) every other weekend. We usually try to pick well protected anchorages. However, storms can pick up quickly, and I don't want to have to rely on protected anchorages all the time. You never know what might happen. One anchorage in our last boat we did a few years ago, a storm came in, and went from calm winds to 50 mph winds in a matter of minutes.

My biggest question is whether the 1/4" HT galvanized chain and 5/16" shackles going to be enough for the C36 on a regular basis? Why would Catalina put a windlass on a boat if it didn't fit the correct chain size recommended? We haven't purchased the rode yet, so I might go with 3/4" three strand.

When I looked at the 5/16" Crosby shackles, the 3/4 ton WLL was the same as the 5/16" shackles we already have. And the shackles that are currently installed on the ground tackle has a 1 ton WLL.

Also, we haven't had any problems in the past with the plow anchor, and every boat I've see in the lower Chesapeake uses them.

We haven't even thougth about snubbers yet. We are still trying to get the ground tackle and rode sorted out first.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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TomSoko
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Robert,
I think I agree with Bud. 1/4" chain and either 5/8 or 3/4 three-strand seem OK. The weak link, IMHO, is the 25# anchor. I would go up at least one size on that. I also think that 30' of chain is less than what you need. I think you would have better holding power with 2X or 3X the chain you currently have. Your boat, your choices.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

BudStreet
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Posts: 1127

The shackles I have are rated at 2T WLL. They might be 3/8", they fit our 5/16" HT chain and both anchors.

Here's my view on production boats. Boat builders shoot them out the door with the minimum equipment they think people want. That minimum may be just ducky for someone primarily day sailing or weekending, but when you start living on the boat it falls through. The windlass is a good example, fine for limited use, but not up to the job for long term use with upgraded ground tackle. The 4D batteries are another example, as is the the low output alternator, the limited electronics, small holding tank, etc. etc. Catalina did not skimp on the bones of the boat though, unlike some other builders.

If you're cool with the CQR plow of about 25 lbs go for it, personally I think it's two sizes too small . And any recent anchor test I've seen says they're not great, in fact they generally do pretty poorly. I've had personal experience watching boats with CQRs drag all over the place in a squall while boats with Bruces and newer anchors likes Rocnas and Mansons stayed put.

MaineSail has some interesting videos on anchors and how they set (or don't), might be instructive to see them.

What works for me in my area on my boat is not necessarily right for someone else, I'm just passing on what I did and for us it works.

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LCBrandt
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Posts: 1282

Robert, my boat has had a 25 lb Suncor for ten years and only in the past two weeks did I finally get around to changing it...for a 20kg (44 lb) Rocna. The Suncor, while light, has been a good anchor for the conditions we've used it in, but we're contemplating an Inside Passage trip to Alaska in a year or two and I wanted to beef it up. Our toughest anchoring conditions seem to be the San Juan Islands, with kelp, rocks, and a 3 to 1 scope because so many neighbors nearby, but we've never drug (once it's been properly set), and only twice have I had to re-set during initial anchoring due to (probably) kelp.

The Suncor runs a thousand bucks, Defender price! (Anybody know a Catalina 30 or 320 owner who'd like to buy a great anchor for that boat?)

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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HowLin
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Don't know about the 1/4" chain to 5/8" rode splice... and if the 5/8 three-strand is recommended for the 500 windlass (to avoid chafe).

I have a Maxwell 800 - my manual recommends 5/16 chain and 5/8" three-strand for that windlass.

Even if you can do a decent splice with the 1/4" chain; the 5/8" three-strand might not feed properly through the gypsy.... just thinkin'.... :confused:

North of Desolation Sd. here in the PNW it's not uncommon to have to anchor in 60 ft. I have 180' chain and 175' of 5/8" rode...

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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rtrinkle
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I stand corrected,, the anchor is a 35# CQR. I will also either go with the 5/8 or 3/4" rode three strand. Thanks for all the info on this. Up until now, the only thing I really understood about ground tackle was the scope of ground tackle when anchoring, now I have a much better understanding.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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