I have a CS prop on my CS-36. It is an amazing prop but Norm has a tendency to over prop them so be sure to give him ALL the information you can. Mine came pitched to heavy and as a result my motor could not turn max rated RPM. He stood by it and re-pitched it but it cost me a short haul.

Your motor should be able to turn max rated RPM with a clean bottom and prop.

Here's a review I wrote on it.

[URL="http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=112587&highlight=c..."]Campbell Sailor Review (LINK)[/URL]

I too had the same overpitch problem with the one I purchased. Rather than go through the hassle of shipping and paying for a repitch (I waited too long listening to Norms insistance that it must be the engine) I just put the Michigan 3 blade back on.

In either case I would definitely get a 3 blade instead of the 2. I know you said you wanted to stay focused on the CS, but have you considered the Kiwi composite feathering prop?

Gary - I just received a recommendation (the same as yours) for a CS prop from Norm. I have an 89 C36 with the M25XP Universal and a 15x10 2 blade currently. I RPM checked my system this fall before haul out and found that my max speed was just under 6kts but my tach was reading 3450. Have not calibrated the tach and suspect it is reading high but it did seem to be running hard. My concern is going down 1" in diameter and 2" in pitch. I'm already concerned with my top speed/rpm so I haven't pulled the trigger on a new prop.
:confused:

I got the same recommendation from them as well, they didn't say anything about their props being cupped in their email, just that was their standard prop size for a C36.

I sent him back an email and suggested that prop seemed too small in diameter and pitch based on what the Catalina 3 blade prop is but he hasn't replied yet. The price they quoted was $607 (Cdn $ I expect but he didn't explicitly say) delivered plus tax of 13%.

Maybe that's just their starting point for any C36? I'm going to see what Catalina Direct has to say on this issue, they offer a 15 X 9 and a 15 X 10 but they are big bladed props. When we go south next year we will be doing a lot of motoring and that's a lot of the reason why I am looking into the 3 blade prop thing. We don't have the facilities to be pulling the boat out to change props if it isn't right ($500 to bring in a crane and there's no divers around here who do this stuff) so I'm not real keen on getting into experimentation on this.

I have the M25xp, I believe I purchased a 14x8 prop. Norm is correct, the prop is very efficient and takes a huge bite of water. 14x8 seems to be his pat answer for all c34/36 I'm guessing that is the size for his mold, saving some labor by not repitching. It will probably work fine on a 27 or 30 hp motor, just a bit too tall for my23hp.

Ken - are you saying that the 14x8 prop is too much for your M25xp? How is your performance with that prop? I am leaning toward an adjustable prop so I don't have to deal with the re-pitching issue.:D

Guys what ever prop you get it should allow the engine to attain max rated RPM. Norm is rather famous for sending these out over pitched.

Most owners have NO clue about proper RPM with a prop so they get it, it feels smoother, and they are happy even though they can barely attain 2600 RPM on a 3000 RPM rated engine.

If no-one gives Norm feedback then he will continue to recommend that prop for a C-36 over-sized or not. Hell, it may be spot on, I just mention this as a word of caution. As I mentioned in my article mine was over pitched by 300 RPM which is 100% unacceptable but most boaters would never notice.

I might suggest asking over on the C-34 site to see if anyone has actually compared their engine RPM with the CS prop.

Mine was done with a digital photo electric tach as Norm's first response was that it must be the tach, which I knew it was not. Do NOT accept a prop that is off by more than about 75-100 RPM from the manufacturer recommendations.

Maine Sail - so when you determined that it was over-propped what happened next. Did Norm swap the prop for a lesser pitch or modify the one you had? How much was the re-pitching charge? I can easily see this running to a large amount as the haul out each time to get it right is not cheap. And the loss of time if he modifies the existing prop could be substantial. I think I read somewhere that Norm sent a new prop to swap so a "Short Haul" was adequate and that sould help. But I've also read 'like above' where people just gave up after he insisted that it must be something other than the prop.
This "Prop magic" has always frustrated me. I have had similar issues with power boats I own but trailering to swap a prop is much less hastle and cost than the haul out scenario. I know there are so many variables involved but it seems like there should be less VooDoo involved.:(
What size prop did you finally end up with?

I read every thread I could find on the C34 site and this site about this issue, there are lots, and I am more confused than ever. For everyone who is pro on a certain issue with this prop there is someone who is con. Every vendor out there says theirs is the best. There was lots of grousing about spending a lot of money on props that didn't work and way more trial and error than I want to get into.

Recommending the same prop for all C34s and 36s despite the fact that there can be 15 hp and several thousand pounds difference plus at least four different hull/keel/rudder shapes just seems wrong to me.

What we have now with the two blade isn't broken so I'm thinking I'm not going to try to fix it. We have no vibration problem, get 6.3 kts at 2100 in flat water and while we lose some speed in rough water or wind it doesn't seem excessive. What boat doesn't, that's just physics. The engine doesn't smoke or labour, it seems to have lots of thrust and while the prop walk makes docking on starboard difficult I can live with it. Certainly the prop walk is my biggest issue but one person said the CS made that worse! So why get into some unknown turf where there's clearly no winner.

What I am going to do though is try to find a hand held tach and next spring find out if our electric tach is accurate and know for sure we are in the right max revs range with what we have now. After that I'll figure out what I want to get for a spare prop, likely I'll stay with what is working now.

I always think you can make something better, but maybe that's not always true.

Hey Bud:

I know it is a hard decision to make in what your doing with the prop. As I switched over a few years back to the 3 blade max prop and it took me a few years to get it close to where I was happy with the results. If your going to do the ICW there will be times you will be running against the current and it will be up to 2 kts in places we have found. So the 3 blade does help there. But hey all we have is time now. I would love to see what we weight now with what we have stocked on board as we are getting ready to cross over to green turtle cay. As for a tach. If you have a harbor fright look there.I got mine there and have been very pleased with it. They have a web site if you do not have any around your neck of the woods.

Randy

[QUOTE=Gary Bain;7171]What I find a little confusing here is that a Canadian Sail boat is usually lighter in weight than a Catalina and yet a 16 X 10 was recomended and he recomends a 14 X 9 for the C36.....goes to show reaching a final decision is not always easy!

[/I][/QUOTE]

Actually the CS-36T is a quite a bit heavier than the C-36, I have owned both. The dry original design weight of the CS-36 was supposed to be 15,500 but most were coming out of the factory at closer to 16,300. Ours was weighed in Florida by a yard and came in at 19,860 pounds but she had water and fuel and supplies. That's a lot of displacement for a 36 foot fin keel boat.

Even if you compared the dry factory design weights the CS-36T is still about 2000 pounds heavier. She also has a 44HP engine that can swing a 16" dia wheel, perhaps a few reasons for the bigger prop.

I only bring this up as a caution so that you guys make sure you get your props sized right. Norm is great to deal with but if you can't turn max RPM it's just not right. Universal/Westerbeke are fairly firm about prop sizing/max rated RPM..

I guess our fat old girl needs to go on a diet. She weighed well over 19,000 lbs when pulled this fall and that was dry except for fuel. The crane guy had a crap when he picked it up because I had told him its weight was supposed to be 16,500 lbs and we had emptied it . That was totally stripped inside, no supplies, no upholstery even. It is the heaviest boat in our marina, including the powerboats and sailboats up to 40 ft.

There's a thread on here somewhere discussing weights of C36s and as I recall there were reports of boats beyond 20,000 lbs. Ours would likely top 21,000 wet and loaded with gear. It takes us two loads in our station wagon pulling an 8 foot long box trailer to bring all our junk home in the fall, plus a couple more loads with just the car, all this due to rodent issues in past.

Maine Sail your boat has been re-powered wot? Because we looked at a pile of CS 36s last fall when we bought our C36, both Merlins and Ts, through Pat Sturgeon in Port Credit, a broker you must know about since you own a CS. He and his staff all worked at CS during their years in business and they are very knowledgeable about these boats. None of those boats had anything more than a 35 hp engine and the ones with original engines were 30 hp.

I got a reply last night from Norm to my query on prop size and he mentioned the foil shape and cupping. He said I should get 6.2 - 6.4 knots at 2000-2200 rpm which would be just fine with me since we get that now. He didn't mention that it would be able to reach 3100-3200 rpm at WOT though so that's obviously a concern. He said it would run smoother and would have better control in reverse with less prop walk as well.

As I said earlier, for everyone with a pro there's someone reporting a con and according to every prop maker theirs is the best. But they don't have to pay the haul out costs to get it right, I do, and it is a significant chunk of change. If they were prepared to eat that cost, I'd order right now.

Now, on to finding that hand held tach.

Bud: Have you tried Princess Auto? I think the closest store would be Kingston, but you can also order on-line. Here is a link to their hand held digital tach. [url]http://www.princessauto.com/workshop/hand-tools/automotive-tools/diagnos...
I have one and it works pretty well.

Thanks for the link Tom, there's one in Whitby now as well, I get a lot of stuff there. Will check it out next time I'm down there, also going to get a hand held thermometer I think.

Randy's info about Harbour Freight was great, they sell the same type of stuff as Princess at about half the price, but they don't have any option to ship to Canada on their weebsite and don't have any stores up here. Bummer.

Sorry for the delay, been away from the computer.

I was very satisfied with the performance of the CS, with a clean bottom/prop it would easily push the boat at 6-6.5 kts in calm water. I didn't compare speeds when sailing, but know it had to be better because of the much smaller surface area of the prop. Reverse was great...much less prop walk.

The 14x8 was just took too big a bite, the max rpm I could get was 2600 which gradually decreased to 2400 as the prop got fouled. That meant I was constantly overloading the engine that was designed to have a max rpm of 3000.

It's a great prop, but for a 23hp engine it needs to take a bit less bite, smaller pitch or less cupping to keep the engine happy.

Old thread I know - but I just got my new CS prop from West by North and it looks great. Delivered to the date Norm quoted. Will be installing for a drop in date of April 26th and will be doing a clean hull review of the prop soon after that. I'm prepared to haul the boat if performance is not satisfactory but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I will update this thread on the situation as soon as I have a properly performing system with the hope that it may clean up any questions the group has on selecting the CS for the C36.:)

That sounds good Harold. I am interested in your results as I also have an 89 C36 with the M25XP engine. I currently have a Max-prop and am considering going to the Campbell Sailor prop. By the way, what diameter and pitch did you end up with?

Thanks for your offer to post the results!

Went with Norms original recommendation of the 14" 8 pitch 3 blade cupped (CS3RH14x8x1) prop. I figure reducing the diameter 1" and pitch by 2" should keep it in the ball park of the original 15x10 2 blade. Will be talking to Norm if it is not!:D I'll be comparing my speed / RPM readings from last fall (although the hull was a little mucked up) to this new prop. Also Santa brought me the Harbor Freight optical tach to verify the final setup.

I installed the new 14x8 Campbell Sailor prop at launch and tested. As below it was way to much prop for my 23hp M25xp. Good speed at low rpm was nice but loading the engine badly. Could only get 2400 rpm max

1st prop 14x8 with cupping
*Calm water test
engine rpm(tach) speed(gps)
1350 4.3
1800 5.3
2225 6.6
2400 WFO no additional speed

I contacted Norm and discussed the results of the first prop and he was surprised. I assured him that my readings were correct and he agreed to make a new prop. I received it and installed. Had to pay additional shipping for the new prop, return shipping for the original, and a short haul to install. I am pleased with the performance of the new prop however. Still a little low on the rpm but I will leave it like it is until fall haul out. Then decide weather to tweak it some to get more rpm or leave as is.
2nd Prop 13x7 with cupping
*Into about a 25 knot wind 2 foot chop.
1350 2.4
1800 3.7
2225 4.8
2630 5.7
3000 WOT 6.1

*Downwind
1350 4.6
1800 5.0
2225 5.7
2630 6.6
3000 WOT 6.7

The relative speed/rpm readings were very similar to the original 2 blade prop but the engine seems noticeably smoother and reverse prop walk is significantly reduced (but still there). The boat backs with authority which surprised me since the new prop is significantly smaller than the original. Sailing speed seems to be better as well but that is very subjective.
Norm is very nice to work with and I am happy with my dealings with him.
Hope this helps anyone looking at CS props in the future.