Mast climbing system

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
Vic Holland's picture
Vic Holland
Offline
Joined: 6/21/10
Posts: 17
Mast climbing system

In the 2010 image galleries, there is a picture of someone climbing the mast of MAHAYANA # 493. The apparatus that they are using to scale the mast appears to be fabric footholds that are slotted into the mainsail track and raised with the main halyard....does anybody have any info on this system?

Vic Holland
Lepidro #1980
2001 C-36 MK II TR/FK M35B

cjenson
Offline
Joined: 6/18/08
Posts: 6
Rockman's picture
Rockman
Offline
Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 237

Not sure how this would go if you had a mast mounted furling mainsail.

Cat375 - Rock The Boat - Hull 54
Lake Macquarie - NSW - Australia

stu jackson c34's picture
stu jackson c34
Offline
Joined: 12/3/08
Posts: 1270

It wouldn't. Nor would it work with my Harken BattCars. But "most" people have tracks and slugs.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

2sailaway's picture
2sailaway
Offline
Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 49

This is the only way to fly if you have the standard rig provided from the factory on non in mast furling rigs..... I have used this on a number of occasions and it works great!

Larry Robcke
MKl Tech Editor S/V  L' Amante #319, 1984 C36
Sailing Long Island sound and the Hudson River

nelson
Offline
Joined: 6/23/08
Posts: 89

Apparently, the system will work with some external mast tracks. I have an external track made by Tides Marine ( the Strong Track). I was told by Mast Mate that the track may accommodate a nylon internal flat slug, which would allow the use of the Mast Mate system. I've never checked that out.

Nelson

Nelson Lee, "Stella," 2002 C36, hull 2069, Universal M35BC, berthed Sausalito, CA

John Reimann's picture
John Reimann
Offline
Joined: 12/2/08
Posts: 321

According to Mast mate, they can put some sort of slug on their system that would work with the in-mast furling system also.

SF Bay
1998 C36

bakerha's picture
bakerha
Offline
Joined: 7/23/10
Posts: 267

I'm looking for a mast climber system and would like to hear comparisons on this system to the ones like ATN makes (the Mast Climber). Safety is my largest concern but I'd like to hear opinions.

_____________
Harold Baker
S/V Lucky Duck
Duncan Bay Boat Club
Cheboygan Michigan - Lake Huron
1989 C-36 mkI TR/WK M25XP

Ciscocat's picture
Ciscocat
Offline
Joined: 6/25/07
Posts: 244

well, i haven't used the ATN system but i have seen it used by one of my dock mates, the system works but not withstanding the commercials by ATN on the use, it seemed awkward to use and there was a lot of effort involved. Maybe is was because my dock mate had not used it much but it didn't seem to have a natural motion and he was pretty well pooped out by the time he had climbed to the spreaders and back down. Mast steps would seem to be a much more natural motion.
FWIW

Mike Hogan
s/v Ciscocat #226
Mark I XP25, std rig

John Reimann's picture
John Reimann
Offline
Joined: 12/2/08
Posts: 321

I've been told that it weakens a mast to put steps all the way up it ndue to the number of screw holes you have to puit in.

Comments?

SF Bay
1998 C36

deising's picture
deising
Offline
Joined: 11/3/08
Posts: 1351

John,

I have zero experience performing stress analyses in spars, but I can tell you that ANY discontinuity (holes, geometry change, etc.) in a stressed material will introduce stress concentrations.

Having said that, it is pretty impractical to design something useful without drilling holes in it. Designers compensate for the stress concentrations by the geometry they use and trying to locate the holes in lower stress areas.

With as few failures in spars as you hear about, I am pretty confident that the holes added during the boat building process have been accounted for. The ones that get added later "could" be an issue depending on how big, how many, location, rig tuning (to keep stresses in range), etc.

The boat designer, Gerry Douglas, in this case, might be a good source for an answer.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

stu jackson c34's picture
stu jackson c34
Offline
Joined: 12/3/08
Posts: 1270

A friend tried the ATN and we couldn't muster up enough leg strength to use it easily. I really takes practice. What we do is use a climbing harness with foot loops and a bosuns chair.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

nelson
Offline
Joined: 6/23/08
Posts: 89

I have the ATN Top Climber. It is not as easy to use as their materials (or the inventor/founder, Etienne, who is at some of the boat shows) suggest. In fact, for a sixty-something like me, on the large size of the continuum, it is a piece of work, frankly. If I had to do it over again, I'd look at the Mast Mate (discussed in this thread), which attaches to the mast using the mast track, and allows one to climb up. One of the challenges of the ATN unit is that it tends to drift all over the place as you are ascending, even if you have it well secured to the deck below. My son, on the other hand, shot right up the thing. Unfortunately, I can't arrange to have him with me whenever I need to go aloft!

--Nelson

Nelson Lee, "Stella," 2002 C36, hull 2069, Universal M35BC, berthed Sausalito, CA

StephenK's picture
StephenK
Offline
Joined: 6/16/08
Posts: 129

I have the Mast Mate and find it simple to rig and easy to climb. The climbing motion going up is easy, just be sure to get your foot properly in the loop. I find coming down to be a little trickier to spot the loop...just go slow.

As a backup, I use a bosun's chair and the mate tails that separate line as I climb using the Mast Mate...there is no winching me up to the top anymore. The only thing I didn't like about the Mast Mate is standing in the loops for an extended time...it was not comfortable on the feet, but if you use it along with the bosun's chair, you can sit and relax up top. If I didn't use the chair, I would want to use a safety belt (around me and the mast) with the Mast Mate.

For comparison, I had a friend bring over the ATN to try it out and he couldn't get to the spreaders without giving up...it is a motion that needs to be practiced to get efficient at it. Overall, I like the Mast Mate.

Stephen Kruse
Kruse Control #1428
1995 C-36 MKII SR/WK
Lake Lanier, Ga.

deising's picture
deising
Offline
Joined: 11/3/08
Posts: 1351

Much as I hate to admit defeat, I gave up on the ATN Top Climber and just use the nice bosun's chair and webbing portion with a person grinding me up to the top.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

Steve Frost's picture
Steve Frost
Offline
Joined: 12/14/07
Posts: 788

I have what I feel is a fairly reliable mast climbing system.
I call a rigger. I have been up the mast on several boats, made it to the top of my mast once in a bosuns chair. There are times when it is a necessity and having a reliable system will ease the task. Working at hieghts I find my utility is limited as I will have only one hand to work with, the other will be tightly wrapped around something, my legs too will have a passionate embrace around the mast. Last time up I had black and blue marks on inside of my thighs for two weeks, I am sure an anaconda could not of had a stronger grip.

I find my time better spent at lower altitudes and pay somebody to go aloft and the job likely gets done better and quicker.

Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas

hilbre
Offline
Joined: 7/19/08
Posts: 218

Might as well weigh in.. tried the ATN at a boatshow and it seemed to work fine but in practise I got no more than 10' off the deck before I gave up. I believe there is something of a trick to it. Have considered mast mate as I have that extra track in the roller-furler mast (Charleston Spar). Currently leaning towards a block and tackle (6:1 purchase) as I need something that works and is easy to use for extended voyaging. Currently using a bosuns chair and the winch, but it is the admiral who rides to the top, not me!
John Meyer

John Meyer
Hilbre
C36 MKll, Hull 2135

Cabrillo Marina, San Pedro, CA

Steve Frost's picture
Steve Frost
Offline
Joined: 12/14/07
Posts: 788

John, it sounds like you have a great system figured out, do you rent out your wife (Admiral). I am lucky if I can get mine aboard the boat (she is not a boat person) let alone going up the mast.

Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas

plaineolde's picture
plaineolde
Offline
Joined: 11/4/08
Posts: 753

[QUOTE=hilbre;7108] Currently leaning towards a block and tackle (6:1 purchase) as I need something that works and is easy to use for extended voyaging.
John Meyer[/QUOTE]

One caution, from personal experience. When I got my first boat in the mid-eighties, I decided to make up a block and tackle rigged to my bosuns chair. I don't remember the purchase; it was rigged from my boom vang blocks, which had a jam cleat. I used the jam cleat to hold myself at a specific height.

However, I found that, as my arms tired pulling myself up, I had a very difficult time getting it cleated. I damned near made a very speedy decent, before finally getting the line cleated in the jam cleat :eek:. Never tried it again.

I'm sure there's a solution to that, which I haven't thought of since then. But I wanted to issue the warning, so you might avoid a nasty surprise.

My current favorite way to get to the top of the mast is by: travel lift crane. With someone else in the bosun's chair. Doesn't work all that well out on the water though:o

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

TomSoko's picture
TomSoko
Offline
Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 978

I copied a local rigger's method. He used 150' of 3/8" line. Upper block with a becket, lower block is a Harken ratcheting block attached to the bosun's chair. Upper block is hauled to the masthead with a halyard first. You end up with 3:1 purchase, pulling downward and lifting yourself. It only takes a small amount of pressure/grip to hold yourself in place because of the ratcheting block. I can haul myself to the top without much trouble, but if I'm feeling weak, someone on the deck can help. Could also use a snatch block and the windlass. Racers would cringe, but I installed a pair of folding mast steps about 4' from the top of the mast. They are in line with the upper shrouds, and have never fouled anything. Once I get to the top, I stand on the steps, and wrap my harness tether around the mast a few times. This leaves me securely attached, with both hands to work at and above the masthead.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

plaineolde's picture
plaineolde
Offline
Joined: 11/4/08
Posts: 753

I like both those ideas. Having folding steps to stand on would have to be helpful; I find it difficult to get into a position stable enough to do real work.

As my wife and I get older, I've also considered the windlass method, though with the kids soccer schedule, I'm most often single handed these days.

I must admit to being extremely paranoid about going up the mast. At the dealer/marina where I purchased my boats, someone was killed when the shackle attached to his bosuns chair opened, and he fell to the deck. I've always taped it closed. And as a safety, I tie a 1 or 2 foot line to my harness. I tie the other end to the spinnaker halyard with a rolling hitch. The spinnaker halyard is secured tightly on both ends. On ascent, I slide the knot up the spinnaker halyard with my hand held [I][I][U]under[/U][/I][/I] the knot. If something let go on the bosuns chair, I'll only fall a few inches before that knot will tighten up. On the way down, I push the knot down a couple feet at a time, then let go of it. That way, I won't grab it by reflex, if I started to fall for some reason.

Probably overkill; but I have to feel safe in order to go up there, so whatever works is OK by me.

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

Capt. Sam's picture
Capt. Sam
Offline
Joined: 2/22/10
Posts: 322

Tom, I think I understand your mast climbing system, except I don't know to what, you are attaching the line that you pull on? You're not just holding it are you? I mean, what if it slipped out of your hand? Is there some cleat that you belay it on or such?
I need to get up my mast pretty soon.
Thanks
Sam

Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida

TomSoko's picture
TomSoko
Offline
Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 978

Sam,
I probably didn't explain that well in my last post. The free end (the end that you pull on), is tied off to a cleat as I go up the mast every 10' or so. That way, if both I and my helper let go (not likely!), I can only fall about 10' at most, and not down to the deck. You can either use a mast-mounted cleat, or one of the bow cleats. I pull myself up, and my helper on the deck either helps pull me up, or simply ties off the line when I tell them to. I suppose I could also use a spare halyard thru a rope clutch as a safety line with the helper continuously taking up slack. With the 3:1 purchase, it really becomes easy to hoist someone up the mast, and with friction of the ratcheting block, it takes very little effort to hold yourself in place. Using a winch I found to be VERY tiring for the person grinding. Hope this helps.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

bakerha's picture
bakerha
Offline
Joined: 7/23/10
Posts: 267

Tom - would you mind sharing what blocks you used in your ascending rig? I looked over the Harken book I have and just don't have a clue what blocks would work the best and safely. Thanks

_____________
Harold Baker
S/V Lucky Duck
Duncan Bay Boat Club
Cheboygan Michigan - Lake Huron
1989 C-36 mkI TR/WK M25XP

TomSoko's picture
TomSoko
Offline
Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 978

Harold,
I just glanced at the online catalog, and the Harken blocks I used are the 009 and 012. They're 3" classic blocks with a SWL of a lot more than I weigh! The 012 is hoisted to the masthead, and the 009 is attached to the bosun's chair. I think I found them on eBay for a lot less than retail. Hope this helps.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

neilroach
Offline
Joined: 2/4/10
Posts: 126

I also use a block and tackle, though mine is a 5 to 1. Light line and 2 inch blocks. Total cost about 110.00. I run the line down to a block by the anchor windlass then around the windlass and into another block. My wife tails the line off of the last block and hauls me up and down with ease. I safty myself at the working height. For top work I rig a step to get myself up over the top though I really like Tom's instalation of steps at the top. I think I'll do that also. My wife and I are in our 60's and do this with ease.

Neil Roach
"Crewless"
1992 36, Mark I
Hull # 1174
Seattle

Capt. Sam's picture
Capt. Sam
Offline
Joined: 2/22/10
Posts: 322

Thanks Tom and Neil. That clears it up and I'm ordering my blocks and line now.
Although, I'm thinking of buying a good climbing harness to use either instead of, or in addition to, my bosuns chair. I think it would be more secure as I can't fall out of it. And it might allow me to get to the very top of the mast, although that is not my immediate need.
Thanks for all your help.
Sam

Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida

Log in or register to post comments