John:

I don't have an answer for you, but there have been a number of postings on the forum over the last couple of years about auto pilot upgrades: above deck, below deck, Autohelm 4000, 5000, etc. You might poke around some of the old threads and get a sense of what others have done and think. You can use the search function to find the threads.

I have the Autohelm 4000, and I know it is in its last years. I will look forward to any discussion on this that ensues.

Good luck.

--Nelson

I replaced my Autohelm about 2 years ago; not sure the exact model but it's the current wheel pilot. The wheel drive is [U][I][B]much[/B][/I][/U] improved over the old one. I had the 1st generation on my Catalina 30 and they replaced the drive 3 times under warranty; the clutch lever would not stay in place. It failed again and I had a loop of string to hold it in place. The one I installed on my 36 actually disintegrated, literally fell to pieces in a narrow channel, making steering impossible :eek: until I beat it to death with a stainless winch handle, freeing up the wheel. I was able to get a new backing plate and ring and rebuilt the thing, but decided I'd had enough and put the new one on a couple years ago. One warning; don't know what age boat you have, but if you have the old style engine pod, the clutch lever doesn't have enough clearance. I had to cut a bit of the pod back, but I have a new navpod to install this spring which will correct that issue. The new ones also include a rudder position sensor which has to be installed. Overall though, I'm much happier with the new one, and the drive unit seems much more robust.

I replaced my ST4000 autopilot with a Raymarine S-1 last year (and am quite happy with the new one. I think that it, too, is discontinued). I replaced it because the head unit had intermittent display problems. In any event, I have all of the mechanical pieces and would be happy to give them away to any member of the C-36IA association. All you need do is reimburse me for the cost of shipping.

We installed a new underdeck autopilot Raymarine with a linear drive onto it's own tiller on the rudder post after our old 4000 failed to cope with boisterous conditions. we keep the old one ready as a back up. We do longish passages, however (to 12 days or so) offshore.

The previous owner came down from the US to New Zealand with just the wheel pilot [I]singlehanded[/I] though, and I hear the new ones are better...

John,

I really like our old ST3000. From everything I've read, the more recent Raymarine units have been unreliable and the wheel bracket/drive/belts have been prone to failure. There aren't too many other autopilot guys left in the field unless you move up in scale and price. The only [I]basic unit[/I] competition I have found is CPT in Aptos, right down the road from Santa Cruz. I visited them last year, nice equipment. Doesn't interface with anything. I have never found that to be a necessity or even a desire, heretical as I am! [url]http://www.cptautopilot.com/[/url] If/when I have to replace my ST300, that's what I would buy.

Speaking of interfacing...

A friend of mine was bragging about how he loved the instrument package on his trawler where everything was interfaced onto a multi-function display. His "computer" needed to be returned for repairs one day, and he discovered that he no longer even had a depth sounder to use. All he had left was his spirit compass, paper chart, and MK 2 eyeballs. We still made the cruise.

I haven't missed having things interfaced at all so far, and I love the fact that it one things fails, I don't have to worry about it impacting anything else.

Duane,

Amen. My motto is keep it simple and go sailing.

John,

I installed my Raymarine S1 three years ago, it has performed flawlessly and has driven the boat for many many hours up and down the coast. It does get quite busy on a deep reach with a following sea as I do, I will usually hand steer in those conditions. Its seastate software does a pretty good job of reducing the constant hunting done by old pilots that looked at heading only.

I have the wires run to attach to my GPS, never got aroung to hook them up as yet, this is item #342 on my list. Seldom see the need for this data link several months ago running into Half Moon Bay in pea soup conditions I was calling out heading courses to my buddy at the helm, being able to tie the plotter to the helm may have been helpful then. I could have used my hand held wireless autopilot remote in that instance as well. I would highly recommend one of those, great for single handing, I can wear it around my neck, go forward and work the fordeck and still drive the boat when single handing or short on crew. It is also nice just motoring down the estuary sitting on the fordeck listening to the bow wave instead of the drone of the engine in the cockpit. It has a pretty decent range, not sure if I could get the boat back to me if Iwent overboard with the remote but, you can be assured I would be mashing those buttons like crazy if it were to happen.

John,

I posted the thread on the X5 deal Defender had a few monts ago. It should be noted the unit was a refurbished unit with the complete "new" unit warranty. So far it had been worth the savings. I installed my X5 interfacing it with a Raymarine C80 (that I purchased from one of our members), a DSM 350 sounder module (with a P79 transducer that I shoot through my hull which works flawlessly), and AIS "B" unit.

When I bought my X5 I was going to install the unit as a stand alone unit with nothing connected. I hadn't even thought about a complete system unil I came across the C80 in our classified add site. Once I bought the C80 I had a few contacts that had the other two units with a deal that I could not pass. How I got all of that past my boss I will never know? If I remember right I told her it was for my safety (which is the truth) as I single hand most of the time on the SF Bay. (The 4000 unit still worked but was getting tired.)

Anyway, so far the X5 has worked flawlessly. I had the 24~7 out last month in high winds with the X5 steering. I hit 9.5 knots several times and the X5 held the course. You could see the wheel easily moving back and forth keeping the course.

I think one of the positive things about the unit are the adjustments you can set after you perform your X5 sea trials (before you can use the X5 you need to set the compass, perform some basic heading settings/adjustments, and then allow the unit to steer while it self adjusts to your boat.) You can macro your turning speed, tacking angle and other adjustments.

As for connecting the X5 to the C80 I think setting and sailing with waypoints is a plus. I can now set my waypoints, either before setting out or while sailing and let the units take the helm. I even have a set of waypoints that if needed can steer me from the bay entrance to the estuary all of the way to my marina.

As far as the complaints about the unit. I did some research on the webb and found the same complaints such as the wheel motor case braking. So far my unit has showed no signs of problems. I have motored or sailed at least 10 days since the installation and all is still well...

And...the boat show in Oakland is coming up in April. I am sure there will be some deals to be had...

Chris

[QUOTE=John Reimann;4629]TThe one thing I didn't like about the CPT from looking at it is the exposed belt. I like the small motor of the autohelm better. Comments?[/QUOTE]

The ST3000 has an exposed belt and a toy for a motor. I do not believe that the belt is the issue, because when Autohelm "improved" their product and called it the ST4000, they enclosed the belt inside the wheel bracket which lead to all sorts of failures and complications. What could be easier than an exposed belt? The 1/4 hp motor on the CPT is far heftier than the little almost model railroad engine toy motor on the ST3000. Like a small motor? Why? I want the BIGGEST, baddest puppy motor I can get.

But that's my evaluation. I've seen them in person, not just read the previously linked brochure/website.

If your uncle was any kind of guy, he would crew for you once in a while and he could steer the boat and you would not need an auto pilot.

On second though, I think I know your unlce and I am not sure I would want him to steer my boat.

I'm sure your uncle, Sam, could promise to do a heck of a job racing the boat, just as soon as the appropriations committee allocated the funds to host the planning meetings to establish a workshop for identifying the best process to select the location for the Department of Sailboat Racing and decided which person to pay back by nominating him or her as Deputy Undersecretary of spin sheet trimming.

Johb,

My comments were not made as a political comment but, as comical one.

There is much comedy in politics but, few laughs. If I ran the world senators and congress members would be required to wear clown shoes and wigs.

John,

I find that there is quite a bit of comedy in being married to a German. I am always careful to let my wife know that I am not laughing *at* her, but *with* her. What I find hilarious are those times when she tries to make me do, or stop doing, something of which she is blissfully unaware that she is equally guilty.

I could write a book. Ya just gotta love 'em.

I purchased a new X5 last year for my 94 36 Catalina. It had a 4000 wheel drive on it which was worn out and I thought it would be a good replacement. The install was quite simple and the set up went very well.

I used the autopilot for a total of maybe 3 hrs without any problems. But, the first time I fully loaded the boat and the wind was up, the gear in the drive stripped. After I got back from my cruise, I contacted Raymarine who very quickly took care of the problem under warranty. In speaking with the tech there though, he was of the opinion that the 36 Catalina was just too heavy for a wheel autopilot when fully loaded. I would have to agree.

I have now installed an S2 below decks with a Raymarine drive and Edson arm. Not cheap to say the least but the performance is like day and night.

If you are a day sailor and light, the X5 is fine. Anything else, go below decks.

Having no experience with wheel pilots I can't speak to any potential ineffectivity of one. I can tell you emphatically that my below-deck Raymarine S1G is satisfactory in every respect.

My control head failed on my ST4000, so I replaced it with the Raymarine Smart Pilot X-5 autopilot two years ago. I have approximately 300 hours of operation, both sailing and motoring in some challenging seas and have had no problems or issues with the performance of the X-5 autopilot.

[QUOTE=Rob Kyles;4592]We installed a new underdeck autopilot Raymarine with a linear drive onto it's own tiller on the rudder post after our old 4000 failed to cope with boisterous conditions.[/QUOTE]
Rob,
One of the jobs I've been putting off for a few years is installing the Raymarine linear drive in Tara. I've had the drive and the edson tiller arm sitting in the after cabin since 2006 and have been mulling over options ever since...
Seeing the photos of your installation on an earlier thread confirmed the need to do an "in cabin" installation.

Your installation looks very functional. The only thing I'm pondering differently, is mounting the drive directly on the after bulkhead with beefy backplating. That will require a 90 degree turn on the drive's thrust access. Any thoughts, Shipmate?

BTW, all of Tara's electronics (save the trusty old Raymarine radar) are genuine Kiwi NAVMAN or NorthStar units: GPS Plotter, GPilot, Wind and MultiSystem. They all work Great! I've got the new NavStar GP380 autopilot controller head also in a box waiting for the tiller/drive installation before replacing the original GPilot head.

Hopefully this will be the year I finally get a round tuit and get the job done. (pending hurricanes and the needs of the Navy, of course)

I looked into upgrading my ST4000 auto-pilot to a smart pilot system with the core pack and rate gyro. An upgrade is not possible without replacing the control head to an ST70 or equivalent. The ST70 or equivalent is more of a dumb display slaved to the core pack processor below deck. I've been told that the smart pilot system works well on a run. Something my ST4000 can't handle on a 36.

John I--
s/v Pooka
1994 C36 TR #1339

Steve -- Now you want me to wear clown shoes and wigs ? :eek:

I'd look pretty funny on the foredeck in that get up ;)

Tom, I have been told you loose eighty percent of your body heat through your head, the wig will help with that. And those shoes afford a great deal of traction, not to mention flotation, far better than sea boots.

You sir are a Senator in name only, so you may forgo the costume. I usually have a full compliment of Bozo's aboard my boat, the occasional lawyer or judge but, no politicians.

[QUOTE=chooch;5031]Rob,
One of the jobs I've been putting off for a few years is installing the Raymarine linear drive in Tara. I've had the drive and the edson tiller arm sitting in the after cabin since 2006 and have been mulling over options ever since...
Seeing the photos of your installation on an earlier thread confirmed the need to do an "in cabin" installation.

Your installation looks very functional. The only thing I'm pondering differently, is mounting the drive directly on the after bulkhead with beefy backplating. That will require a 90 degree turn on the drive's thrust access. Any thoughts, Shipmate?
...
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Chooch

Would probably work... had a quick look at ours:

We used the second hole on the tiller arm to get a bit more travel stop to stop, so ours is closer to the bulkhead than if you use the longest hole of the arm.
The drive must be at right angles to the tiller arm so...
With ours you would need a couple of inches or so of packing off the bulkhead to keep the drive parallel if you mount it there. (Do the instructions allow for sideways mount?)
Other than that, it would probably make a neater installation :-)

Good luck with the job, you will love it when it's done...

We're off to Fiji [I]tomorrow[/I], God willing, from N.Z.
Great forecast (so far)

Fair winds

I had an Autohelm 4000 that I mounted on the wheel in 2001, the second year we had the boat. Tried all the "Catalina Cocktails" for making the beast do what an AP is supposed to do.

Apparently used the wrong mixers or brand of liquor. It worked sort of OK under power with no sails up but would periodically kick off when you really didn't need it to. It NEVER worked under sail for more than about 2 minutes even if the sails were exactly balanced.

I had the opportunity to replace it after a lightning strike and decided to upgrade to an under-deck unit. These are NOT cheap nor comparable units to wheel pilots but it works flawlessly under power or sail. Replaced with the Raymarine X-series which is good to 22,000 pounds - way more than a C36.

Cheap that didn't work for me but perhaps others have had a better experience.

[QUOTE=Rob Kyles;4592]We installed a new underdeck autopilot Raymarine with a linear drive onto it's own tiller on the rudder post after our old 4000 failed to cope with boisterous conditions. we keep the old one ready as a back up. We do longish passages, however (to 12 days or so) offshore.

The previous owner came down from the US to New Zealand with just the wheel pilot [I]singlehanded[/I] though, and I hear the new ones are better...[/QUOTE]

Hey Rob,
Im a new Catalina 36 owner, and installing a Raymarine linear 1 drive under deck of a 1987 boat. Was going to bolt a 2x6 forward to aft of the supporting members of the platform in the rear lazarette, Not sure just how to get the clearnace I need going athwart, the curve of the hull would get the motor end if I install upside down, and I loose my shelf and storage space if I go right side up. Hate to back it into the rear cabin area. Any pictures of your installation?
Thankyou much!
Gary
"Holiday" Cat 36

Hi Gary
Unfortunately we did install ours in the rear cabin, but I like the storage in the lazarette. Also on long passages I like to be able to easily see how things are going with the linear drive. I have fish bins along the aft bulkhead with the drogue and parachute anchor and tools there. We still have a useful double cabin mattress :-)
Hope this helps...

Rob, those photos look like a sweet installation on an older C36! Kudos.

Gary, as you try to fit a linear actuator in a confined space it might help to make a mock-up of the actuator. I did this on my MkII installation, as is documented in my article. Your mock-up might need to be more three-dimensional than mine, but it's a lot easier to work with a light simulation than with the awkward and heavy actuator itself.

Hey guys,
New to this website, I just found your replies, at a point where I am nearly done with the installation. I was able to get the ram to fit under the shelving, with it inverted. Computer is installed, most all wiring in, just have to locate the control head.
I appreciate your pictures and advice. Rob, that is a sweet installation- I bet my wife would have approved of the mechanical beast in the aft cabin, if it looks that neat! Have started writing my own story to post, and will get pictures together showing the support I built for the ram.
Sailing time up here in NY, vacation in a week, so I'm nearly ready to enjoy my "new to me" boat.
Gary
"Holiday"

I'm installing a below deck linear actuator and would like options.

I've seen Larry's and it is clean but I want to NOT attach the actuator to the underside of the swim step if possible, yet I do want the actuator in the hell hole.

Anyone else have a below deck install on a MKII they are proud of?

The best way to get to know a “new to me” boat is to get into a project, and start learning your way around. The previous owner of my Catalina 36 is a retired mechanical engineer, who had left me with a clean boat that was well maintained. I have a shopping bag full of manuals and instructions from the various systems aboard from him and the original owner. Being an Engineer, his idea of “fun” was too draw schematic diagrams of all systems and color coded electrical systems! This was great for me, as I have the ability to read them and profit from his hard work.
Although the boat was a great find, there were things missing from my wish list, that now are my responsibility to build on. I recall him proudly saying “there is no auto pilot, my wife is my auto pilot.” No way would my wife tolerate being tied to the helm, nor could I. On my last boat, a Cheoy Lee 35 I had installed the electronics, to an existing below deck linear 1 ram. With the autopilot my ability to cruise further was opened up, and I could go alone if others could not be a cabin boy during my structured time off from work. I was aware of the advantage of backup electronic steering in case of steering failure. In the past I had a robust rack and pinion set up, now with a quadrant and cables it seems more important to have redundant backup system.
My first exposure to the Catalina website was at a friend’s house, with him loaning me a copy of Mainsheet. Before closing on the boat I was already a member of the Association and browsing the website. I cannot believe the scope, and depth of knowledge that members have well documented and organized for easy access. I applaud you all! I posted a thought to members, asking if I can get away with the wheel steering, and received a general, "you will be sorry in the long run." The final nail was Larry Brandt advising me to read his story of the installation of a below deck system.
After so much good advice from people I feel it is time to return some. While Larry was lucky enough to have a position on the MK II to mount under the swim platform, on my 1987 Catalina 36 there is no such opportunity. I would like to share with people the set up I built to mount the ram below deck. The only other change I made from Larry’s location of other systems such as of flux gate compass and control head is that the computer did not fit in the cabinet. I therefore mounted it below the nav station, where I found a hole was made from a previous installation of navigation equipment, that affords good access to snake wiring in from there to behind the electrical panel, and under the cabin sole. There is no rudder position indicator on the new models of auto helm. This appears to have worked out well and was one less component to install.
It was necessary to add blocks to limit the rudder travel so as not to max out the excursion of the linear ram. Fortunately I do not like docks anyway and close quarters maneuvers. As a new owner I may never realize how much rudder control I lost, although I am finding out under power it will spin rather quickly chasing a missed mooring attempt.
Not wanting to sacrifice the limited storage space in the stern, I elected to mount the ram inverted athwartship on the starboard side. It looked though, with the curvature of the hull, it would be a tight fit, if doable at all. Relocation of the cockpit drain hose was the first casualty of the installation. Needing a firm location, I used a 2x6 rafter leftover from repairs on my garage roof from Hurricane Sandy, who also took my previous boat. Never lost power though!
I braced the first 2x6 lengthwise between the stringers that support the lazarrett shelf. These were held in place by thin steel plates screwed to the 2x6 and the stringers on both ends, at the same height of the stringers to not interfere with replacement of the lazarette compartment boards. Naturally I was not as lucky to have everything line up for those 90 degree angles specified. With the addition of 2 more thickness of 2x6, all held together with 5 inch bolts, also capturing the rams mounting base, I got a horizontal ram angle to the Edson tiller arm. With the arm in place and a new 18 inch drill bit, I drilled through the cabin wall and into the pilot hole of the tiller. In this awkward position it was difficult to exert the pressure to drill. Once through the rudder post wall, I continued into the other side of the wall. With occasional checks of the color of the drilling dust, it finally turned from aluminum to brass. As recommended by Larry, I took everything apart and drilled at home, much easier. The bit then produced “ribbons” of brass, rather then dust, indicating I just was unable to push hard enough in the confines of the boat to really cut quickly.
Location of the control head was to be on an unused spot on the helm Pod, but with limited space to snake wires through due to other instruments, I considered to mount it on the coaming on the starboard side. This was the location on my previous boat, and accessible from the helm and the cockpit. It would also up higher were it would be less inclined to get a button bumped as had been past experience.
Unable to find a satisfactory exploded view of the Edson pedestal, I decided to do some exploratory disassembly. The compass came apart in the usual manner, remove the night light housing, then the stainless housing, 4 large screws were exposed. With these removed the compass came off easily and the pedestal nearly fell apart. Really easy stuff. I then had to rummage around, as being new in the boat it was hard to find a well stocked junk drawer for a thin snake line to drop down into the holes inside the aft cabin for snaking the “back bone” wiring.
A point of interest, in my rush to “fire up” the toy, I connected a “spur wire” from the computer to the head directly to see if I could get things working. An error message said “No Pilot” Try as I might I could not get the system up. A call into Tech Support, informed me you must use the “back bone” wire between the computer spur wire and the control head spur wire. Don’t know what magic lies in that blue backbone wire, but it worked right off.
I considered the mounting more of a mock up, with plans to modify if necessary over the winter. I found it necessary right off to add angle iron brackets for a more secure mount to the stringers from the 2x6. This worked well to hold things in alignment from the torque of the ram trying to twist the 2x6 mount. All was well with the mounting to go from Oyster Bay NY out to Martha’s Vineyard.
Now with winter here, it was time to remove the mount, take some pictures and paint it for a final installation.
I hope this helps and encourages others to mount a below deck system on their boat. Really the worst part was the drilling!
Good Luck!
Gary Matthesen