I just completed a redo of my nav electronics. I installed a Raymarine C80 Chartplotter, AIS 250, DSM250/Transducer, and a X-5 Autopilot. (As a sidenote: those of you that need to upgrade your electronic charts, Navionics is now selling the entire US rather than sections of the US...for the same price as the sectional charts).
Now for the question... Batteries. I currently have two matching house 12V #27 batteries and one 12V #27 starting battey (both were purchased about 6 months ago and are the same brand). The two 12V are set up under the seat ifo the nav station. The third starting battery is located behind and port of the engine compartment. The two house batteries are connected at the Nav Station with a dedicated Battery #1, Both, and Battery #2 switch. The starter battery switch is located to the starboard of the Nav Station seat and below the house battery switch.
Yesterday I took my boat out for a quick sail in the Oalkand Estuary and found after sailing for a while on one battery was not enough. The transducer did not want to work and the auto pilot was noted to flach low battery. When I went down below and swtiched back to both batteries, two 12V house batteries in parallel, everything worked perfectly.
Upon return to my slip I checked the charge and then the fluid level in both batteries. Everything was up to par. It should be noted I motored for about 15 minutes to get back to my slip which would have given the batteries a chance to somewhat recharge. Also it should be noted I had left the Navigation units on while working in my berth for a couple of hours while still on shore power before I went out sailing. Finally I checked the Specific Gravity of the the battery cells and found them to all match in the green...
I know there are a lot of different opinions and ways of setting up batteries, two 6V vs. one 12V as well as batteries in series vs. batteries in parallel? And where the batteries are to be stored? I would like to hear some ideas from those that have upgraded or are planning on upgrading your systems, especially those of you that have the Cat36MkI (in regards to location?).
My thoughts are wondering whether to get a set of matching 6V's, taking up less room thus more batteries, and hook them up in series, or if I can find the room an extra set of 12V's hook them up in Parallel? I am leaning more towards the set of 12V's in parellel giving me twice the amphours to run my stuff...
Thanks,
Chris
Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA
You're leaning the right way, in my opinion.
While I cannot speak to battery locations on a pre-Mk II boat, I believe that your best (and most economical) near-term improvement would be to parallel the two house batteries. You've already stated that they are fairly new, and that they check OK with a specific gravity tester. Why not go with them, and simply parallel them into what is, in effect, one great big house bank?
Your new electronics will draw quite a bit of power, but the autopilot is a large current suck. I suspect that you ran one of your single house batteries down, and the re-start and motoring in brought them back to near full voltage.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Two Group 27's are not a lot for a house bank nowadays given the amount of electronics on boats. AFAIK the best of these will give about 95 amps each so at most 190 amps in total. We had two Group 31's for house bank on our 28 that were 115 each and with no refrigeration and minimal electronics it was OK.
Going to a single pair of 6 Volts isn't going to improve on that much, T-105's are 225 amps each but wired in series to get 12v that's all you get. US2200's are a bit more at 232 amps. More likely you'd want 4 X 6V to get you up around 450 amps. There are bigger 6Vs capacity wise but the size gets to be an issue.
4D's might fit and will give about 170 amps each. But I could not find true deep cycle 4D's (other than AGMs which break the bank), they are all just heavy duty truck batteries and given the number of receipts for new batteries we found in this boat, they don't last, PO was getting about two years max out of them. The ones in there when we bought it are pretty much dead. From what I could find out, 8D's won't fit in there and they will break your back trying to do anything with them, the 4D's were bad enough to get out.
I am currently working on conversion from 4D's to 4 X 6V's but it's a Mark II so I'm not sure if this is relevant to the Mark I. Space is tight but they will fit under the seat in front of nav station were the 4D's lived. We have about 22 1/2" X 18" wide. The US2200's are 10 1/4" x 7 1/8" each. Biggest problem is a bundle of wires coming out of the battery compartment at the hull wall, it takes 3" of space and has to be re-organized to be able to get a proper battery tray in place. The height is a bit tight at 11 1/4" but should clear, just. I built a battery tray for them to sit in and it adds about 1/2" inch to the length and width battery dimensions and 1/4" to the height so it is tight.
It is not an insignificant job but not the most difficult either and should be a lot better than what was there giving us 464 amps. We tend to be pretty conservative on power consumption so as long as there are no big surprises with the fridge unit it should be fine (he says hopefully).
Tom Grover put me onto this setup and he has a Mark I, perhaps he could fill in the details on that aspect of it?
Larry & Bud,
Thanks for your help. I believe when I get around to the project I am leaning towards a second set of 2 X 12V batteries in paralell for the extra amp hours. In the mean time I will sail on "Both" of my house 12V batteries to run the navigation and auto pilot. I always have my third starter battery to fire up the engine...
I sailed on the SF Bay yesterday for a few hours and did not run into any problems like a few days before. I agree with Larry I probably ran the batteries down prior to going out. I did however supplement the power using a wind generator I installed a few months ago. I don't know how much it helped but with the average 20 knot winds it didn't hurt... (by the way the new X-5 auto pilot worked like a dream, even when the rails were almost burried, got her up to 9.5 knots and averaged a good solid 6-7 knots.)
When I returned back to my berth I tried to find a location for the new set of batteries. As you know I have my two 12V #27 batteries located under the seat ifo the Nav. Station. My third (starting) battery is behind the engine. I found room for one battery under the seat on the starboard side forward of the other batteries (which was noted in one of our upgrades. I noted in one of our other postings that Julandra put one of the batteries in the storage area above and to the starboard of seat ifo the Nav. Station. I currently have my battery charger in there which would have to be moved if I put a battery in there...
Is there anyone out there that has a MKI that has some other places they have secured their batteries... I know someone out there has...
Thanks,
Chris
Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA
Chris:
I have a C36 MK1 and have replaced the two group 27 batteries that came with the boat with four 6volt golf cart batteries, the US 2200's which will give you 464 amp hours of capacity. I installed them under the starboard side aft seat, forward fo the nav table. To make them fit, I cust the sides off of the battery tray that housed the two group 27 batteries and added a plywood floor to the compartment. I fiberglassed it in place to ensure there was no way any leaked battery acid would find its way into the bilge. the ifrst picture is of the original battery installation and the second is of the 4 golf cart batteries.
Tom & Janis Grover
C36 #0949
SR/WK, M25XP
Midland, ON
Chris,
A few years back, I also went to 6V AGM golf cart batteries in series. One bank of two under the Nav Seat (up against the cabin bulkhead. Another pair under the after starboard seat and a 12V starting battery under the forwars startboard seat. All and all the two house banks have worked well. The switching networks allow any combination of the three battery banks.
Fair Winds,
Glenn "Chooch" Jewell
Nautae Luna 1232 (RIP Tara 389 Hurricane Sally 2020)
GO NAVY - BEAT ARMY!
I have 2 4D batteries which are generally plugged into shore power, except for an annual cruise where we try to anchor. I carry an automobile portable jumper battery(the kind that includes jumper cables, light and air compressor all in one handy case). I keep this on board as an emergency starter battery, but have never tested it to see if it will start my engine. Has anyone ever used one of these to start their boat??
Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan
Richard,
Yes, I too keep one of these aboard for the occasional emegency starting battery,it will do the trick.
I have fought some battery/electrical issues recently that could have left me stranded until the wind came back, l also like to note how effective the compression release is when your batteries are low. If your battery only makes your engine go rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruh rrrrrruh and no start. Pulling the compression release up and hitting the starter often will get the engine spinning fast enough for the engine to start when the lever is released. I have used the booster battery with and without using the compression release and it worked well. Though if you are down to your last couple of attempts at starting before you totally run out of cranking power from any source the compression release is a good tool.
I occasionaly single hand my boat and have considered putting in or carrying a remote starter switch as there is no way to use the compression release and the starter button at the engine panel when you are by yourself.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Thanks for the comments; this is good information.
Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan
Thanks to everyone that replied,
There was a small boat show at a marina in Alameda last week. There I made arrangements to purchase four 6V batteries. The price was great and even included the two connectors to connect the two pairs of 6V batteries together in series.
My plan is to do what Tom did (refer to his photo). I am going to secure the batteries in the compartment ifo the Navigation Station where I currently have my two 12V batteries. I will keep each pair of 6V's as battery 1 and battery 2. I will use then as "both" when I sail making it one large house battery giving me the amp hours I want to have. I am going to move my two 12V batteries and secure them behind the engine compartment where I currently have my one 12V starting battery. I will connect these two batteries in parallel so I will have the benefit of the extra amp hours and thus another house battery in just in case...
I was told there is a plastic battery container, similar to the 12V cases, that I will look at to catch possible acid. If they fit I think it would be much easier that making a fiberglass case enasing the battery compartment...
I currently have a ProMariner 1230i Charger that will take care of all three set of batteries.
Now here is the kicker for those that are interested. He had a new gadget designed to fill/top off the wet batteries. The system was originally designed for golf carts and adapted to the boat enviornment. The system has specially desinged caps that are inserted in the battery cells replacing the original caps. Attached to these caps are small hoses. There is a quick discconect that attaches another hose with a squeeze bulb similar to the ones we use to prime our out board engines when connected to the gas tank. You connect hose/bulb to the quick connect and place the free end ifo the bulb in yout water and pump your fresh distilled water into the batteries. The caps are designed to prevent over filling the batteries. This is the part that I thought everyone would be interested in... The system is designed for those hard to reach batteries that are next to impossible to reach and a pain to remove. This system would make that several minutes to maybe a lot longer battery check and top off disappear...
thanks again,
Chris
Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA