You may want to consider having a professional surveyor look at as opposed to a lot of opinions from us that may span from totally ridiculous to spot on. So before you commit, do yourself a favor and hire a professional to give their recommendation / opinion.

Is there not anyone in this group that has experienced something similar to what Tass is describing and could provide some insight; good bad or indifferent? Luckily I have not experienced anything of this nature.

Pros cost money, but so does lost opportunity if you let a perfectly good boat deal escape for little or no reason.

Having some experience with a rock hit (by another skipper, not me), I can tell you that the structure in the keel is hell-for-stout. The two cracks you show (even though there are three photos, there are only two cracks) are quite likely nothing to be worried about, except that you need a professional to tell you that, not me. They do not look like rock hit damage to me. It would be interesting to have a look at the most forward keelbolt, accessable beneath the floorboards of the V-berth. If there had been a rock hit, that is the keelbolt that would have borne the brunt of the shock. BUT, this is where a pro can really help you. You did not say whether you saw the boat hauled out, but you should be able to arrange for a pro to look at it in the water. Then, only if you're comfortable with the professional's assessment at that point (if he determines that the crack is essentially cosmetic, or requires a simple repair only) would you authorize him to proceed with the survey of the remainder of the boat.

Cheer up. This should not be a showstopper. Please let us know what you decide to do and/or what you learn.

From my non-expert opinion but from a lot of boating experience it is definitely not normal - certainly insofar as C36's go.
Either the broker or seller provides a professional report and gets it fixed at their expense or you look elsewhere.
There is always another boat to buy and I would always be worrying about what might be going on down there. Hope this helps in your decision.

My recommendation was not of the "2,000 Euro" magnitude. Not even a tenth of that. To clarify, I suggest hiring a professional surveyor to have a look at the particular cracks and bilge area only, probably no more than an hour of his time. Only then, once the boat got a clean bill of health would you proceed with the usual survey that every purchaser should do before committing to the deal.

Another strategy would be to have the broker bring this issue to the seller's attention, and suggest that the seller pay for this first step. If it were my boat on the market I would want this issue resolved, and would be willing to get a surveyor to write a report on it and/or have it fixed, on my bill, prior to placing the boat on the market.

I suggest talking to the seller about paying for this initial step.

By the way, it does not look like a ground hit to me either. A hard smack into the shallow seabed would do a lot more damage elsewhere (aft keelbolt area and rudder, for example). That's what's so puzzling to me, and what makes me think this is a production issue, and likely cosmetic.

I would agree with Larry that the owner should take the first step at evaluation and repair.

I would also agree that this does not look like a grounding incedent to me as this is probably one of the strongest areas on the boat and as suggested you would likely see damage in other areas first.

If I may speculate, knowing the boats location, could this be from water freezing in the bilge. If moisture was trapped in some of the surface layers of the fiberglass mat I could see how it may cause cracking like this.

Tass,

I would agree with those who recommend you get a survey opinion on this boat. Further I would spend what ever it takes to get a look at the bottom of the boat. The whole bottom would be important for me to see.

That's because, like Steve Frost, I think the cracks may be due to freezing but unlike Steve, I would suspect that this boat has been operated in ice flow conditions. These could be cracks from hitting floating surface ice chunks, that impact the hull above the keel.

The only way to know for sure is to get a look at the bottom.

Good Luck, what ever you decide to do.

All good input so far. I think Larry and Steve have it correct. I wouldn't buy the boat without know for sure whether this is superficial or structural. I really can't tell from the pictures, but there is something about the "shortness" and the length of the cracks that doesn't seem like a structural issue, but more of a superficial imperfection when that area was laid up in fiberglass. Either way I would at least take a quick look with the boat hauled. I don't think you'll see it in your vintage 36, but remember a "Catalina Smile" is not automatic concern. That too is superficial unless let go too far and for too long. Looking at these pictures as close as I could these cracks look like they might just be the gelcoat and not structural. You wont know until further investigation but at least you can be hopeful.

If you are not a "mechanical" person a surveyor is good - Of course - I find surveyors are like many professions, some are excellent and really get down to the botom of what this is and some surveyors will do a cursory look and not really know if its superficial or structural and just say "it doesn't look good" blah, blah.

Also I would be very wary of someone saying they’ll get it fixed to sell it for you. The seller is not motivated to spend a lot of money on the fix. If its superficial no big deal, but if there is a structural element to it, they might what to do just a cheap fix.

If it was my personal boat and I didn't want to incur the cost of a surveyor immediately this is what I would do (since its not your boat its not as easy to do) – What you are looking at is the fiberglass over the stringers in the bilge area and then the whole area has a gelcoat applied (I don’t think its originally paint). I believe this vintage boat (newer) actually have “polymer” or some type of plastic stringers so water incursion will not rot them (earlier boats I believe had marine lumber)

1) I would take a dremel tool with a small grinding bit and grind down through the cracks to see how deep they go. If you grind down a ¼” and don’t see the crack anymore & all you see is clean “pink” resin and fiberglass I would feel good to think that it was only a surface imperfection when they were hand laying up at this factory. (Then I would just mix up some epoxy and maybe “kitty hair” filler if needed and fill what I ground out and then paint over)

2) If it looked like it goes really deep (more than an inch?) then I would haul the boat and see if I could see something from the bottom.(My personal opinion is I doubt you would – I have pictures of a C36 that went full hull speed into a rock and took out an ungodly chuck out of the keel, but not a single crack on the outside near the keel stub attachment point to the hull – But yes there were some cracks inside in the aft area of where the keel attaches the hull).

You never know maybe the boat did hit something – but the look of these cracks and the location lead me to believe that is not what caused them, it looks like sloppy work when built at the factory

Sorry, I am a bit late to this discussion. I have seen this once before on a MKll and belive it has nothing to do with ice or grounding. I understood it to be simply a cosmetic issue however I would address this directly with the Catalina factory to see what response they have. Even though it has not been discussed before, I believe it may occur on other C36 MKll's so Catalina probably can give a quick response to this question. please let us know what they say.
John Meyer
2135 Hilbre
San Pedro, CA

There is almost nothing that can't be repaired on a boat, barring major hurricane damage, for instance, where the boat would be totaled, although some skippers have brought those back, too.

See:

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4792.0.html[/url]
[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5313.0.html[/url]

That said, how serious are you about the "rest" of the boat? If you really admire it, then a full survey should require a haulout anyway.

For your information, Catalina is absolutely horrible about email. Horrible.

You need to telephone them, which will require you staying up really late some night, and ask to speak to Gerry Douglas. If you can't get him, try Frank Butler.

But it could very well be something they know nothing about, and only specific to your boat. If that's the case, take the matter into your on hands, so to speak, and do what Tom suggested, with the agreement and in the presence of, the owner. Heck, I figure he'd be interested, too.

Good luck.

Stu