I have a 1999 Catalina 36 Mkii with an Edson Steering system with a equipped with radial drive wheel as opposed to a quadrant. I've run into an odd issue which I'm struggling to understand and thought I'd post some of the details to see if anyone can shed some light on what might be happening before I begin my exploratory dive into the pedestal and the bowels of the boat.
Last year I installed a linear drive autopilot using Larry Brandt's excellent article on this site detailing the installation of the same system on his vessel. Everything seemed perfect, I was able to commission the AP and use it successfully on a number of occasions last season. However, on one outing near the end of the season last year, the mark identifying the center of my steering wheel mysteriously shifted several degrees to port. To be clear, the centerline mark on my wheel shifted from the 12 o'clock position to roughly the 11 o'clock position . This meant that I had to hold the wheel at the 1 o'clock position to steer the boat on a straight course. This was reflected on both AP's control head rudder reference gauge. Just as mysteriously, it returned to normal on a subsequent outing.
Prior to launch this past spring, with this issue in mind, I inspected the lower part of the steering assembly ( radial plate and wires) and noted that the steering cables were a little loose. I tightened them up to what I feel is an acceptable degree of tension based on information I've been able to gather from various Edson support resources. On our second outing this spring, the centre line of the steering wheel again shifted from the 12 noon position to the (roughly) 11 o'clock position and I'm baffled.
The rudder is in great shape, and there have been no incidents where the rudder or rudder post could have become damaged. There is no slop in the rudder, it is sitting normally (hasn't dropped) and the lower part of the steering assembly also appears to be in very good shape. I have yet to examine the inside of the pedestal. Another point to note is that even though the wheel/rudder centre has shifted, the indicator on the rudder reference transducer (the two small lines on the upper and lower parts of the actual transducer) still line up when the original wheel centre is positioned where the centre should be. This means of course the the radial drive wheel is not shifting on the rudderpost or otherwise misbehaving...
Therefore, the only potential issues that I feel could be the cause would be related to the hub sprocket, chain and/or wire assembly which would have a direct impact on the of the wheel postion... Am I overlooking something?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Peter Feltham
Cattitude
Kingston, Ontario
Peter, it sounds like you are on the right track.
Please view the PDF file I have attached. On page 9 you will find the sprocket and the pin to hold in place. I am not sure which model you have - but it may need to have its set screws tightened.
Let us know what you found.
Sail La Vie 1999 Catalina 36 MKII, M35B-17031, Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA
About Sail La Vie
Hi Peter,
I replaced the cable on my steering system this winter and , of course, encountered a few problems.
One was somewhat similar to what you’ve described.
It is critical that the chain is correctly placed on the sprocket. It is possible that due to the loose connection you found the cable may have some how shifted , fully or partially, out of the cable slot on the radial drive wheel. This may have allowed the sprocket and chain to slip. It’s a little like when we were kids and pushed too hard on our bicycle peddles which caused the chain to jump.
As I still had my pedestal partially disassembled I was able to see this occur as I was aligning and tightening the cables to the radial drive.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Kevin
1985 36 M1 # 485
Bronte Outer Harbour
Ont Canada
Hi Peter,
One other issue which may have contributed to the problem was that as I was installing the cable at the very back of the radial wheel the cable wasn’t fully inserted into the cable slot as I was tightening the eye bolts. This can’t be seen easily. I only discovered this error when I was testing the system by shifting fully between port and starboard several times. After the testing I went below and found that the port side cable and eye bolt were loose.
One last point. If you do end up pulling your system apart be damn sure you cross the cables over within the pedestal as described in the PDF “ illustration 11 “ attachment from the other persons message to you.
I didn’t know about cable switch within the pedestal and hadn’t crossed mine. I can tell you the 750 meter journey from launch at inner harbour to my slip in outer was an experience I do not want to repeat. Thank goodness my Son, a sailor with 25 years experience, took the helm from me.
Cheers
Kevin
1985 36 M1 # 485
Bronte Outer Harbour
Ont Canada
To center your steering wheel you just need to make the adjustment by loosen the starboard side tensioning eyebolt and taking up on the port side eyebolt. A 1/4" makes a big difference at the wheel.However, if the cables were so loose that the chain actually jumped a position on the sprocket then you will need to fully loosen the cables enough to re-center the chain on the sprocket(be sure rudder is centered first if you have to do this.) Take extra precaution and remove the compass and weather barrier so that you can see the chain/ sprocket assembly. Turn the wheel all the way to port and starboard to insure that the thimbles to the cable do not ride up on the sprocket. This would cause premature wear and tear on the cable and compromise the system.
Steve Steakley
SNOWBALL
1998 C36 #1711
Seattle,WA
https://svwandrinstar.blogspot.com
This all great discussion and good read!
I have one more question to throw into the mix. Has anyone created a second access pannel in the aft cabin to better access the cables and the tensioning nuts? Our boat has a removable wood pannel on one side of the rudder post but not the other, requiring very akward arm and body poistining to loosen the cable tensioning nuts. I think I tried hanging upside down in the aft seat lockers and that didn't appear to be a good approach either. Maybe it's a two person job? There is not a wide enough opening below the quadrant to get a socket extension on one nut and a had wrench on the other nut.
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
Paul,
I ran into the same problem, I could reach through the Port side access panel and tighten the locking nut on the Port side but for the Starboard side I had to squeeze down into the Aft starboard locker. I am 6' and 195 pounds so I just fit!. I remove all stowed gear from both sides before taking the plungs since I have to stretch out my legs across to the port side in order to duck down low enough to get to the locking nuts. I do think there is a specialty wrench that you might try that is a open end that you can turn up to an angle and get a socket on the locking nut. to avoid crawling down the locker in the future I thought about buying something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/GEARWRENCH-81915-Piece-Wrench-Metric/dp/B002BHXRM8/ref=sr_1_44?keywords=open+end+wrench+flex+head&qid=1583200579&sr=8-44
Steve Steakley
SNOWBALL
1998 C36 #1711
Seattle,WA
https://svwandrinstar.blogspot.com
After reading the above post I think it is important that if you ever remove your steering cables then make it easy on yourself by attaching pilot stings to each cable end before you pull them through and up the pedestal. ( I mark the starboard cable with red tape before pulling through) , Then tie off the pilot strings to the helm so that when you replace the cables they will automatically be pulled through in the proper configuration.
Steve Steakley
SNOWBALL
1998 C36 #1711
Seattle,WA
https://svwandrinstar.blogspot.com
Steve-
Good information. Thanks.
These posts really gave me pause to think about changing out my 15 year old steering cable. My cable broke on our C30 and I learned there never is a good time to loose it, and, emergency tiller designs are terrible at best.
We have an autopilot as a backup so I can take a little relief in that.
Paul
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
Hi Peter,
I have the same issue, discovered yesterday after two days of sailing in moderate conditions under autohelm mostly. For zero rudder my wheel 'rudder zero' indicator is now in the 1 o'clock position. I will follow the advice provided by our colleagues and see how it goes. Thanks.
Craig