[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]We're in the final stages of spec'ing out the solar panel system we plan to install on [I]Tehani[/I] this spring. The three alternatives we've been looking at are: hard panel(s) mounted on the (existing) davits, hard panels mounted over the bimini, or Solbian panels mounted on the bimini material (highly rated by MaineSail).[/quote]

I can't say enough good things about the Solbian panels. They actually cost about the same by the time you are done, on many installs. Most bimini's are built to a price point. This means thin walled tubing, long legs, little crown, and minimal to no side to side support for adding close to 40 pounds of panel & fittings on top of it. The 140W panel alone weighs about 28 pounds.

I have done numerous rigid panels on bimini's and the added components needed, fittings, special and expensive mounts, tubing, struts, aluminum, nuts bolts screws and modification by a canvas guy all add up to darn near what a Solbian costs BUT you still have close to 40 pounds atop your bimini where a Solbain 125W panel is about 6 pounds.

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]While the Solbian panels look very interesting from technical and aesthetic viewpoints, they are very expensive and would also not work during our long northeast winters on the hard.[/quote]

I would not leave any panel connected to a vessel on the hard, unattended. This goes for any charging system not just solar. I have seen many banks destroyed by solar systems over the winter. In almost every case the panels became occluded with ice/snow and the parasitic loads killed the bank.

Most all good controllers will not turn back on with a low battery voltage. This is a safety feature to prevent charging into a shorted battery.

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]We reject davit-mounted panels as just too much junk too far aft.[/quote]

It is one of the best and most economical places to mount a panel if you already have davits. You can also make a mount that easily articulates to to gain better sun angles on an as needed basis. I'd much rather install a heavy rigid panel on a davit system than a bimini.

This is a Kyocera 140W panel on our davits. We can still go up and down the ladder and it never gets in the way. In late afternoon sun I can also aim it to get a little more output.....
[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/148964411.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]That leaves the somewhat traditional hard panels mounted over the bimini.[/quote]

This can be done but it has to be a well engineered solution. Heavy walled tubing, Corner cross bracing struts, through bolted feet with backing blocks (NOT SCREWS). Strut locks, strut supports, Gemini fittings etc. etc. etc. and it will still wobble and work at the frame and fittings over time. It's why I never installed a rigid panel on my own bimini and chose instead to mount it on the much stronger davits.

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]Also, we had this arrangement on our previous C34 and we loved the performance and the aesthetics were quite good. (Don't know what manufacturer they were.) During our two-week cruising vacations, virtually always moored or anchored and with the fridge running continuously, we almost never had to run the engine to charge batteries.[/quote]

Even if you do install them on a bimini you really need to consider where the panel goes when it gets rough. At some point the bimini and associated windage need to come down because the frame simply won't support it safely, unless specifically designed to do so. 95% of the bimini's I see out there were never meant for anything much more than the fabric and need considerable reinforcement and customization for it to work. I just quoted a Kyocera 140 and Solbian CP125 to a customer with a bimini. When I added up just the materials alone to do the "proper" mount on the bimini it was within $100.00 of the Solbian.. I had not even added in my labor..

Course many people just slap a panel up there and pray.:) I have seen broken fittings, screws ripped out of decks due to poorly designed installations on bimini's..

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]If we mount the frame to the pushpit, as we have seen in a Forum photo, we'll be able to leave the panels up over our inside-the-toerail winter cover to keep the battery charged during the winter. We will also be able to fold-up or remove the bimini and still have our solar power.[/quote]

I can't stress enough against doing this. Batteries lose very little charge during cold weather. A once per month, or even bi-monthly, top up is often more than adequate. If you live in a colder climate less often and slighly warmer winters slightly more often.

I have a battery in my shed right now that I last charged on December 11th. I checked the OCV on this battery 10 minutes ago, when I realized I had totally forgotten about that article, and it was still at 12.72V.

[B]EDIT:[/B] In the middle of this response it prompted me to finish a new article on this very subject. Thanks for the "remider" :D

[B][URL="http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge"]Effect of Winter on Battery Self Discharge[/URL][/B]

December 11, 2012 to February 26, 2013 or 2.5 months, and the battery is resting at 12.72V ....

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]Sooo... After all this background, I'd love to get recommendation on which manufacturers/models of hard panels provide the best value, performance and warranties. We're looking at something like a Kyocera 140 watt.[/quote]

Kyocera panels are my go to panel for a rigid panel. They are a premium quality panel and they hold up in the marine environment. There are more Kyoceras's in the marine market with long term use than any other panel I know of. You pay a little more but it is worth it for me to know that history. But, a 140W Kyocera is a HEAVY panel for a bimini and is ideal for davits.....

[QUOTE=jworth3;16717]Also, what controller would be a good fit for this type of installation? MaineSail recommended the Genasun MPPT controllers, like the GV-10.[/quote]

I don't just recommend them, I use a GV-10 on my own boat. It is simple, efficient and it works very well. Is it the fanciest controller, absolutely not, but it is a very good value in an MPPT.

I also install Morningstar, Blue Sky, Outback, Rogue etc. etc.. All are very good with varying options and price points. My absolute favorite controller for the money is the Rogue MPT-3024. It is US made and cleans the clock of Blue Sky and Morningstar in the $300.00 controller price range. It even has a battery voltage sense wire, a critically smart addition for solar on boats...

For a basic wet cell bank the GV-10 is a great little MPPT but there are many options. My only gripe with the Genasun is that it needs to be sent to Genasun to change any programming and they charge $50.00 for this. That said the IPN Pro-Remote from Blue Sky equates cost wise to multiple re-programming's of the Genasun, price wise.

Solar is a big part of my business, just shipped a Solbian panel to a C-36er last week, and by far bimini's and davits are the best places to install panels on sailboats, but both methods require well engineered & well thought out installations. I have one customer who's been around the world twice. On an Atlantic crossing about 5 years ago, on his custom Saga 43, he very nearly lost his entire bimini and the 280W of panels that were on top of it. In an emergency he cut the whole mess free and managed to save most of it but damaged one panel in the process. He now has a custom arch/bimini built specifically for the purpose to support his new 400W array... You never know when bad weather will hit so you ideally want your panels well installed.

I have a bunch of "free" rigid solar panels kicking around my shop I could install on my bimini but I am springing for a Solbian because it is such a great option for a bimini install......;)

Must agree with Rodd on the battery issue. Was out to check our boat recently to make sure the recent snow wasn't too piled up on the winter cover. Hadn't been there in 2 months. Batteries (2 years old) were at 12.7 volts. Our boat is on the hard in NYC. Not Maine conditions, but still.... there's nothing like empirical evidence.

[QUOTE=Chachere;16739]Must agree with Rodd on the battery issue. Was out to check our boat recently to make sure the recent snow wasn't too piled up on the winter cover. Hadn't been there in 2 months. Batteries (2 years old) were at 12.7 volts. Our boat is on the hard in NYC. Not Maine conditions, but still.... there's nothing like empirical evidence.[/QUOTE]

12.7V is good! I guess you got lucky..... I had a customer two years ago with a brand new 500Ah bank of Odyssey TPPL batteries and two small 10W panels, each with its own controller, (don't ask) that he placed outside the cover.

I was the first one on the boat in the spring to do some work. When I flipped on the battery switch nothing......... Deader than dead... Pulled out the DVM and the batteries were at 0.0V and completely destroyed.

I had advised the customer to charge to full and let the batteries sit. I did this for him and physically disconnected them. He went to the boat after me, reconnected, and left the solar trickle charging.

Odyssey batteries can go three years without a charge!! He still decided it was best to leave them on the solar.... Well $1945.00 later, plus taxes, he had a new 500Ah bank of Odyssey batteries. Doh'.....:mad:

Batteries like their beauty sleep. The original batteries on my 2002 C36 MKII lasted over 7 years, mostly (I figure) because I made sure the electrolyte levels were always good, and because I didn't 'cook' them in their off time. In the off season, I would charge them for a couple hours maybe once a month, or every two months. The rest of the time they just sat. The only load was the occasional bilge pump run.

[QUOTE=Maine Sail;16741]12.7V is good! ...

I had advised the customer to charge to full and let the batteries sit. I did this for him and physically disconnected them....:[/QUOTE]

exactly. After the first winter when I humped 3 batteries home to put them on the occasional trickle charge , I just leave them on the boat, fully disconnected after being topped off (since we are on the hard there is no bilge pump to worry about..) they seem to hold their charge just fine.

Just a quick comment: We got our boat from the PO with 2 large rigid solar panels mounted on their own framework above the bimini. A few months later, we had a Cat 4 hurricane come right over the top of us. I had all the sails and canvas off, but those panels were not coming off without more work than I had time for.

The 140+mph winds took of thousands of roofs and destroyed entire manufactured homes, but those panels were still there and the framing was not bent. I found that hard to believe, but it happened. I agree that you need to design well for over the bimini mounting, but it can be done.

I have two Kyocera 135's mounted on a frame above the Bimini. In my case they are well aft of the boom and get no shadow. After installation, the Bimini frame was far more rigid than before. I use a Blue Sky Solar Boost 2000E controller which has worked well for me. When on the hook, I am usually fully charged by 11 am the morning and earlier if I have full sun. (This assumes a 25-35 amp drain overnight, mainly from the fridge. The anchor light is LED as are the reading lights)
As I am in the Baja, Mexico, and I take the boat out of the water in the summer for the Hurricane season . Everything is dismantled including the Bimini and stored inside the boat so there is no windage. I ensure the batteries are topped off with water and fully charged. Then, everything is disconnected from the batteries. Five months later when I reconnect the batteries, even though they have been sitting in hot weather conditions, the cells require little in the way of top-off with distilled water. I still have almost fully charged batteries with plenty of power to crank the engine quickly. (added note) I disconnect and remove the solar panels in the late evening or early morning when they are not charging.
John Meyer
La Paz

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]
• Next looked at trying two smaller Solbian panels on the bimini, mounted with long sides fore-and-aft. These would have to bend over the center bimini support tube, which I assume is a no-no. Also, this gets [I]very[/I] expensive![/quote]

Not ideal to have a Solbian bend over a bow..

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• Soured on the idea of building a frame over the bimini, for all the reasons so well-stated by Main Sail.[/quote]

They can certainly work but they need to be well done. Many factory option biminis use thin walled tube.. Take precautions and stiffen it up and it can be okay.

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• Noticed in Main Sail's "Installing a Small Marine Solar Panel System" that his dinghy davit-mounted hard panel is mounted out at the end of the davits rather than centered over the davits. NOW I understand how that doesn't get in the way of using the swim platform! Also provides a way to tilt the panel for best sun exposure.[/quote]

Yes we have it out there quite a way..

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• BTW, gave up the idea of leaving the panel charging the batteries on the hard over the winter![/quote]

Good choice...

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]So... Our current thinking is a Kyocera 140W panel mounted on a SS tube mounted between the aft ends of the davits, with a Genasun GV-10 MPPT Controller. Of course, that brings up more questions![/quote]

Great spot for it..

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• The Kyocera panels seem to come (optionally?) with "MC4 connectors." I hear Main Sail's recommendation to [I]not[/I] get a panel pre-wired with an MC4 junction box. In that case, how do I provide for a way to "unplug" the solar panel to take it down for rough weather or the winter?[/quote]

You open the j-box and disconnect it... I use forks as opposed to rings on these connections.

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• Seems like "UV-protected wire" from the panel to the hull would be a good idea. Is this necessary, or is standard round marine-grade wire OK? Should I get this from the solar panel dealer or source some other way?[/quote]

A UV rated two conductor cable will be fine. None of the marine cable is UV but it does seem to last a good seven to ten + years...

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]
• What fitting is recommended for the thru-hull wire penetration?[/quote]

I like the Scanstrut deck glands.

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• Any idea of a good place to mount the controller on our boats? I assume it should be easily visible to monitor what's going on?[/quote]

No need to be visible if you have a battery monitor....

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• I will want to install an on/off switch. From the post, it looks like with the Genasun this would be on the red wire between the controller and the battery, correct?[/quote]

Correct with the Genasun controllers it goes on the output/battery side + wire.

[QUOTE=jworth3;17169]• Will follow the recommendation to install a fuse in the red wire from the controller, near (<7") the battery. What type and rating fuze would be best?[/quote]

Fuse is just to protect the wire so a 20 - 30A fuse would be fine.

Main Sail - would you happen to have any (more detailed) pictures of the actual mounting hardware you used?

Thank you all SO much for your help![/QUOTE]

I've mounted a number of panels over the bimini using an additional double-bow frame without any issues. Mind you, my bimini frames are 1" or 1 1/4" SS tubing.

I have no issue using MP-4 connectors if they are tie-wrapped under the panels and weather-proofed.

I use SS and "Gemini" brand fittings in my installations.

Not a dumb question at all.
Weather-proof, by spraying with Boeshield, CRC or similar and then wrapping with Scotch 130, Rubber Splicing tape or similar self-annealing tape.

In mountain-top repeater installations I worked on in norther BC; subjected to the worst weather you could think of; I have unwrapped coax connections that were 10 years old and found the connections dry and bright and shiney.