don't know that i will get any response for this but can anyone tell me why on fittings that through bolted the choice is always to use a either a sloted or a Philip bolt instead of a hex bolt? specifically i was thinking about how the stanchion base is attached to the deck. if the idea is set the through bolt without twisting the bolt why not use a hex bolt instead of a a slotted/philip head. i always seem to have quite a bit of a problem holding the bolt while the nut is being tightened. one reason for that is my help(wife) is usually the one holding the bolt in place and i am below tightening the nut.
main reason for asking is that i just every piece of hardware off the boat in preparation to being painted. serveral of the screw heads were stripped.
any thoughs? or anyone know what the reasoning is?
Mike Hogan
s/v Ciscocat #226
Mark I XP25, std rig
Just a guess
Suspect that centering the hole would be one reason and easier to seal because of taper the other reason? Also to more or less have flush with the top of whatever is being held in place.
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine
Well, Mike, if the head of the fastener needs to be a certain shape, like an oval head, then you are stuck with phillips or slot-style for the most part. If the base of the head is flat and clearance allows, however, then I see no reason why a hex head can't be used.
You can, usually, apply a lot more torque with a hex head and appropriate wrench than with a screwdriver, so you need to be careful not to over-torque the fastener.
Aesthetics can play a role, too, as hex heads aren't as 'sexy' as round heads.
As Stu likes to say: your boat, your choice.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
i can see that in some cases but for stanchion bases it not like you are going to be stepping on them or anything, fwiw..
Mike Hogan
s/v Ciscocat #226
Mark I XP25, std rig
Speaking of through bolting stanchion bases: Was looking for a source of water leaking into the aft locker and discovered the rocket scientists at Catalina used SHEET METAL SCREWS on the four stern railing (pushpit to some purists) bases where they attach to the coaming above the transom. I could not believe it! Was going to check the forwardmost bases from down below, but it slipped what currently serves as my mind.
Hopefully this was just done on my boat and not SOP for the mid-late 80s models. Anyone contemplating stern rail seats might check to see what was used for fasteners.
Also noticed sheet metal screws affixing the two little wooden steps on either side of the backstay chainplate cover.
Jack Heaston
1987 C36 Mk I #692
Fin Keel, Std Rig, Rocna 15
Silent Passage, M25 XPB Repower
There are better screws. Maine Sail reported on them in his butyl tape writeup.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Generally, you don't use hex heads unless it is a relatively high-torque application or you are standardizing around them. Phillips heads are considered much easier to work with you don't need the torque (and by design prevent you from over-torquing).
David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA
so maybe i was torqued over nothing at all, it would be easy to apply to much pressure to a hex bolt versus a screw. certainly something to think about... the main reason i brought up the subject is since all, and i do mean all the hardware is off the deck it would be a good time to look at replacing screws/bolts etc that need replacing so i was planning to buy in bulk as somewhere other than WM
Mike Hogan
s/v Ciscocat #226
Mark I XP25, std rig
One thing - installation torque aside, in ten years time when you need to get these bolts out again and they are seized up, you can apply a lot more force to the hex bolts for removal. I just removed and replaced every chainplate bolt in my boat (20 on the uppers, 8 on the lowers) and had to drill the heads off about half of the slotted machine screws as they were stuck and I couldn't apply any real force to them. Not fun and I went through about 6 drill bits.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Actually, Jason, that is a VERY good point. Over-torquing on installation is not nearly the concern as is having sufficient torque to get them off over a decade later.
[QUOTE=Nimue;19537]One thing - installation torque aside, in ten years time when you need to get these bolts out again and they are seized up, you can apply a lot more force to the hex bolts for removal. I just removed and replaced every chainplate bolt in my boat (20 on the uppers, 8 on the lowers) and had to drill the heads off about half of the slotted machine screws as they were stuck and I couldn't apply any real force to them. Not fun and I went through about 6 drill bits.[/QUOTE]
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
That's when you get to bring out your impact driver. I can't imagine what it would sound like down below, with someone wacking away at the impact driver with a hammer...!!! :eek: Though banging away with a hammer certainly has a certain perverse satisfaction when something just isn't cooperating, especially if you add some appropriate 'encouraging' language :D
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
Gary, you just gave me one good reason why America sticks with SAE/Imperial measurements: when you swear at an SAE/Imperial fastener in English, at least you know it understands you. If it is metric, you have no idea what language it speaks. ;)
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Why would you swear at an inanimate object?
Makes as much sense as worshipping a teapot in the sky :-)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Cat375 - Rock The Boat - Hull 54
Lake Macquarie - NSW - Australia
About 30 years ago I finished a Southern Cross 39. One day I had to install the stanchion bases. That day my helper did not show up, so I tackled the job myself. I used hex head bolts and put a wrench on the bolts, wedging the wrench against the stanchion base as I tightened the nuts below. Certainly was a lot of trips up and down to re-position the wrench as I drew down each corner, but it would have been impossible with a slotted / phillips head. Aesthetically I never gave it a 2nd thought. In my 2004 MKII, the holding tank deck hose snakes through a galley cabinet. If I can live with that, I can live with hex head bolts on deck.
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor