13 posts / 0 new
Last post
Sailaway's picture
Sailaway
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 4/23/16
Posts: 4
Installing a cutlass bearing and created a crack

I have run into an issue in using the association's cutless bearing tool and need assistance. I got the old bearing out without a hitch, however in re-installation of the new one, which is about 1/2 way in, I have developed a crack at the hull on both sides where the strut is attached to the hull.

Whooooops, any ideas on what I'm doing wrong, and once I get the bearing in, what to do to properly repair the strut support?

Thank you, Andre 588

 

 

Andre
Sails Up
588 MK-1
Soon to be;
Serenity Now
 

--
Andre
Sails Up
588 MK-1
Soon to be;
Serenity Now
 
William Matley's picture
William Matley
Last seen: 1 day 23 hours ago
Joined: 1/15/08
Posts: 152

Can we see a picture of the strut press setup?

--


Bill Matley
Duncan Bay Boat Club
Cheboygan, Michigan
Lakes Huron, Michigan,
Canadian North Channel
"Spirit of Aloha" Hull #1252

Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 517

I had the same problem a few years ago, discussed on this thread. 
https://www.catalina36.org/forum/technical-discussion/cracks-around-stru...
I put bunch of other links in that thread as well, which you might find useful.

In the end, I followed Newguy's and TomSoko's advice and just filled the cracks with thickened epoxy; haven't had any problems since. 

--

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

GaryB's picture
GaryB
Last seen: 1 month 4 days ago
Joined: 10/26/08
Posts: 511

I would lift the center water tank and check the bolts located under it and make sure they were secure. The size of the crack looks like there may be a problem. I don't know what they used for filler in 1986, but in 1984 they were using bondo which was not waterproof and I had to replace it in my Cat 30 because it was water logged and the outline of the cavity was quite visible. I had to replace my strut a few years ago and some of the pictures that were in the links Matthew posted should help you see what you are dealing with.

--

Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: East Boothbay, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine

Sailaway's picture
Sailaway
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 4/23/16
Posts: 4

Thanks for the tips guys. As far as getting the bearing in the rest of the way, I just had to pull my head out of somewhere dark and look at
my set up of the cutless bearing tool. I had
a washer against the new bearing that stoped against the tapered shaft putting all pressure
on the shaft. I also disconnected the shaft flange as recommended by someone on the site. The bearing then went in without the added pressure on the strut.

I don't have a complete pic of the tool setup, but I now know of my stupidity in setting it up. For those that will be using it in the future, it is rather simple, just use the larger washer against the new bearing.

The strut now does seem ridged, so the plan is to fair it and have the diver check it in 6 months when cleaning the botto

Sails up,
Andre
588

--
Andre
Sails Up
588 MK-1
Soon to be;
Serenity Now
 
Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 517

Seems like maybe standard operating procedure for using this tool henceforth should be to disconnect the shaft flange, since that seems to cure the problem I had as well a few years ago (when using the tool caused similar cracking). 
My hypothesis now is that if the prop strut (and/or the prop shaft) is even slightly mis-aligned, the insertion of the bearing tool shims acts to remove any "give" that the cutlass bearing normally allows for this mis-alignment, and as the tool is tightened it causes enough torsion stress that the strut bends a little, and thus the fairing material starts to crack.

PS: Might be good if you could correct the spelling of "cutless" to "cutlass" in the original posting, so that this thread more readily comes up in future searches.
 

--

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

GMatthesen
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 66

I had supplied the large galvanized washers with 1 inch diameter holes for the tool, about a year ago. I had a tougher time putting the cutlass back in, and wanted to support the cutlass fully for 360 degrees, not leaving the open spot for the yoke. I had hand written instructions that I included. It worked well. So did you use a different washer with a hole smaller then 1 inch,  that got hung up on the shaft taper? I could see that putting leverage on the strut. Ouch....

--

Gary Matthesen
"Holiday"
1987 #50646
Oyster Bay Long Island NY

Sailaway's picture
Sailaway
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 4/23/16
Posts: 4

Gary,

Yes great idea to give the new bearing the 360 degree of the washer to support the bearing. There were two sizes which I did not measure, however the larger ones are the ones that worked. So yes at first I used a smaller washer being naive to the tapper of the prop shaft.
 
In response to the spelling of the cutlass/cutless bearing, this is what happens when one goes sailing after school rather then doing ones homework.

Thanks guys,
 

--
Andre
Sails Up
588 MK-1
Soon to be;
Serenity Now
 
GMatthesen
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 66

Andre,  There are initially a load of confusing parts, and its easy to use the wrong ones when they come all packed up in that little box, mixed together.
Just a thought to ponder. I had raised a motion in my YC to buy a Stutpro for a club tool box. I tabled the motion, until we see what one guy pays for the yard to do it. Basically I want to see if it would save people enough money to motivate them to DIY.
In the mean time, a rather mechanical guy made his own, and offered to give it to the club. While it worked, it might not do so on a smaller shaft, or it may break, or if  misalignment occurs, imposed stresses on the strut or drive train.
  So now Im thinking, when honest mistakes happen as we learn how to use this beastie machine, and all its power, accidents happen. Maybe I don't want to get the club involved, where people get stuck and need advice during busy season on the hard, or even worse, who is responsible if they unleash these powerful tools and crack a strut or damage a drive system,or if I lend a hand as the "experienced" one, and things go awry.

--

Gary Matthesen
"Holiday"
1987 #50646
Oyster Bay Long Island NY

TomSoko's picture
TomSoko
Last seen: 6 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 975

Matthew,
I was quite confused when I first started researching cutless vs cutlass bearings.  From what I can gather, both are acceptable, but cutless is the preferred term.  Cutlass is more of a sword, and cutless (cut-less) is more of a bearing. I would think it impossible to eradicate one term in favor of the other in all publications nautical....but I applaud your efforts!

--

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 517

[quote=TomSoko]Matthew,
I was quite confused when I first started researching cutless vs cutlass bearings.  From what I can gather, both are acceptable, but cutless is the preferred term.  Cutlass is more of a sword, and cutless (cut-less) is more of a bearing. I would think it impossible to eradicate one term in favor of the other in all publications nautical....but I applaud your efforts![/quote]

   Tom, I sit corrected -- I always thought "cutlass" was correct, but I've now Googled and discovered that it appears to be widely spelled either way 

   Interestingly, regardless of how one spells it in a query, Google returns hits on both variants (must be programmed into its search algorithms).   Unfortunately, the C36IA search function doesn't, so depending on how one spells it you'll get different results.  Probably nothing we can do.   (I'm reminded of an aphorism often attributed to Mark Twain: "Anyone who can only think of one way to spell a word obviously lacks imagination")

 

--

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

KWKloeber
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: 8/7/12
Posts: 7

[quote=TomSoko]Matthew,
I was quite confused when I first started researching cutless vs cutlass bearings.  From what I can gather, both are acceptable, but cutless is the preferred term.  Cutlass is more of a sword, and cutless (cut-less) is more of a bearing. I would think it impossible to eradicate one term in favor of the other in all publications nautical....but I applaud your efforts![/quote]

Cut"less" (i.e., less wear on the shaft) is the Johnson-trademarked name of it's Duramax cutlass bearings.

​To wit:
Cutless® is a registered trademark of Duramax Marine® LLC​

Therefore, "Cutless-brand cutlass bearing" (as in "Kleenex-brand tissues", or "Styrofoam-brand rigid insulation",) or Cutless® cutlass bearing, would be the proper reference to that particular product, as opposed to a "Morse cutlass bearing."

kk

--

Ken Kloeber
"Positive Impact"

Lake Norman NC

1984 C30 #3573
TRBSFK M-25

 

Chachere's picture
Chachere
Last seen: 1 day 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 517

I now know -- from, um, personal experience -- that this is just a crack in the filler material, and not structural, per se..
Here are some pictures from my recent job of replacing the prop strut, so that you can see what's in there when its removed....and how much filler is needed to build it back out again (I used epoxy with various thickener materials).    Per Catalina's instructions, a couple of layers of glass cloth should be laid over it and faired (which I did).

Forward and aft of that area, however, its hollow and open to the inside of the boat (on the inside, the aft area gives folks problems because water will pool in there with no where to go.  A PO (I assume) had filled that on the inside with expanding foam. 
Obviously, a crack in that area would create a leak, but given the hull strength that's not likely.
 

Attachments
--

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere! #466
1985 C36 MKI tall rig fin keel M25
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

Log in or register to post comments