Head acting weird

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Capt. Sam
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Head acting weird

I'm baffled by what my toilet it doing.  When I flip the lever to the right after usage, be it liquid or solid, and try to pump the contents to the tank, it will pump normally a couple of times then start to balk and shudder. the discharge hose shakes and its very hard to push the pump lever down to pump out the bowl. I've recently rebuilt the toilet with a re-build kit which included all the gaskets and valves. This happens even just after the holding tank has been pumped out. Any one have an idea? I'm on the verge of just donning my hazmat suit and re-working the whole system. Oh and by-the-way, there is a constant odor in the head eminating from the bowl, even when  I've used the blue liquid deoderizers. Smells awful. My boat is a 1994, but used very little and the toilet has been rebuilt twice. Latest in the last 6 months.
Help!
Sam

Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida

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mogline
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Posts: 47

You don't state what head you have but I would guess a Jabsco.  I had a similar experience after rebuilding and after carefully looking at the diagram in the manual realized I had incorrectly positioned the valve gasket and cam.  Try disassembling and making sure everything is in correct position.  I doubt there is any other explanation.  Make sure to lube the piston when you have it apart.
The odor is a whole other story.  From your description it is likely - at least in part - from decaying sea life in the bowl, but things like the joker valve and old hoses can contribute.
I solved the problem by throwing out everything except the holding tank and replacing it with a vacuflush.  Wife and friends are no longer terrified by the head and the boat smells, well, sort of like a boat!

Mike Ogline
SHADOW #1831
2000 SR/WK
Deltaville - Chesapeake Bay

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LCBrandt
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Sam, you need to tell us which brand of toilet you have. A Jabsco or a Headmate?

BTW, my first guess is that you replaced a hose in the wrong place, or perhaps a part in the head pump was put in upside down or backasswards. Toilet pumps are not rocket science and it IS possible to look at the parts and figure logically how the darn thing works. But a couple of questions first...

Q1: Are you sure you have the head intake sea cock open?
Q2: What happens when you pump with the valve in the DRY position?

 

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

Talisman
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Make sure vent hose isn't clogged and that joker valve is ok and properly positioned.

Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
 

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newguy
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On a discharge stroke, cylinder pressure seats the intake flapper and pushes contents through the joker valve.  There has to be some venting of the backside of the piston to prevent vacuum lock (this is one of functions of the fill/empty valve).  A shuddering discharge hose and hard pumping suggest something is not venting.  In order of most likely to least: fill/empty value is not working correctly, holding tank vent is clogged, joker value installed backwards.

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2015/april/marine-heads.as

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

dpower
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Posts: 231
What about a clog in the discharge hose from the head to the holding tank?

David S. Power
Two If By Sea #1687
Burnt Store Marina
Punta Gorda, FL

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newguy
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I like Dave's suggestion.  Check that one first!

Use of the blue stuff is likely covering up for the need to replace hoses.  Even if you have top-quality hoses, after some years they all begin to stink.  Test them by cleaning your hands, running your hands along a segment of hose, and then smelling your hands.  The bigger the hose, the more it will stink.  The longer the hose, the more it will stink.  Discharge, deck-pump-out, and vent will be job #1.

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

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VermontSailor
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A problem I have had with the Raritan head, is the plastic clamp that holds the Joker Valve in place. The clamp ring is rather flimsy and tightening the two clamp bolts much more than finger tight causes the clamp to bow, compressing the Joker Valve flange to a greater degree around the bolt holes. The uneven pressure on the flange eventually deforms the duck bill end of the Joker Valve so it does not fully close. This is a common problem with over tightening the bolts on the Raritan. They get to sell more replacement Joker Valves that way. I made a much more substantial clamp ring out of Starboard that does not distort the Joker Valve when the bolts are tightened. This eliminated frequent replacement of the Joker Valve.

The Joker Valve not fully closing can allow odors from the holding tank into the toilet bowl, besides not being able to pump out the bowl very well.

Nile Schneider
Mañana C36 #1798
Lake Champlain, VT

lflenner
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It sounds like you have a jabsco unit. I have had the same issue and I found if you hold the lever to select flush vs dry hard to the right while pumping it corrects the issue so something is wrong with the guts of the selector lever. I'm going down tomorrow to put a rebuild kit in I'll let you know what I find

Larry Flenner
"Low Pressure"
C36 MK II 1995 TR/WK
Rock Hall,Md

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newguy
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Hey Sam.  Any update on your toilet issue?  Fixed and what fixed it, etc.....

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

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Capt. Sam
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Posts: 322

sorry it has taken me so long to follow up on this issue since I'm the one who started the thread. thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and education. I do have a Jabsco system. here's what happened. the last time I went outside the territorial limits I went ahead and open my through-hole valveturned on the macerator pump. this time it performs normally ran for about 2 minutes and then RPM's dramatically increased indicating tank was empty. after that the problem seems to have resolved itself. No more shutter no more great difficulties in pumping.so my theory is there was a blockage somewhere that finally dissolved and cleared itself.    I like the suggestion about replacing the hoses because there is no doubt that that is where the stink is coming from. I didn't realize that over time the oder would seep through..thanks for everyone's help. 
 

Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida

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LCBrandt
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Hint: When you use the macerator to pump out at sea, make sure that AS SOON AS the macerator pump is shut off that you close the thru hull. Any delay will allow sea water to backfill into the holding tank, thus making its capacity less usable than you might wish.

I installed a remote macerator switch next to the macerator so that I could operate it in the most efficient manner possible.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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