Hard Transmission Shifting

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kenstrom
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Hard Transmission Shifting

I have a 2004 36 MK II Tall Rig, Wing Keel.

My transmission has never been easy to shift since the day I got the boat in 2007.  I have had several close calls by not being able to quickly get out of reverse or forward as quickly as I would have liked.

In the past, I have inspected the linkage and it all appeared to work well.  I am trying to get the admiral more involved with operating the boat and she cannot get the transmission out of reverse using both hands.

I tried to search for other threads, but could not find much using the SEARCH window.

Has anyone else had this problem?  Did you track down the cause to the transmission or cable linkage?  Where you able to fix it?  What worked?

Thanks,

Ken

Ken Enstrom
2004 C-36 MKII #2199
Tall Rig, Wing Keel, M-35B
S/V Valkyrie - Sail Great Lakes

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Phil L
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Posts: 104

I have this problem only when I have been sailing with the transmission in reverse (engine off of course).  It's a bit of a bear to get it disengaged.  Will be curious to see what types of responses you get.

Phil L 
Southern Cross
Channel Islands, CA
C36MKI #400

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newguy
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Posts: 408

My suggest is to isolate cable vs. internal stuff.  Disconnect the cable from the shift lever and operate the lever by hand (tied to the dock naturally).  The amount of force to move the lever full travel forward and back should be the same and should only require slight pressure - 5 or 10 pounds is my best guess.

Let us know what you find.....

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

pierview
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Posts: 582

Ken... I had this same problem last year and my boat is 2 years older than yours so its probably the same thing as the usage is about the same. . Assuming you try what was suggested (disconnect the shift cab;le from the transmission and try shifting the lever by hand on the transmission.... if it moves easily, its not the transmission but the cable), thee cables are corroded inside. If you replace them I'll bet all your problems will go away.

Its a bit of a pain replacing them so do both the shifting and the throttle cables at the same time.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

kenstrom
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Posts: 72

Today I set out to fix this problem.  With the engine off, I first disconnected the cable from the transmission shift lever.  The cable was able to be moved very easily from the handle at the helm.  To my surprise, the transmission lever also seemed very easy to move by hand without the cable connected.  There is a spring detent of some sort in the transmission to keep it in forward, neutral, or reverse; but I have to say it was fairly easy to move manually with my hand.

I'm not sure what is going on.  I looked over the cable bracket to check for good alignment to the lever, etc.  It all appeared to be pretty good.  The only thing I could think of is possibly when the cable is under even a small load, the cable binds or sticks to the cable sheath adding friction or binding.

I removed the compass at the helm and disconnected the shift cable from the shift arm and tired to drip some oil down to the point where the cable goes into the sheath.  I also tired to lubricate the steel rod at the other end of the cable that attaches to the transmission shift arm.  To improve some leverage, I moved the ball that the cable attaches to the shift arm to a different hole that is slightly farther up on the shift arm and farther from the transmission shift shaft centerline.  This reduces rotation angle of the shift arm, but should reduce force to rotate.

After doing all the above, it appeared that I reduced the shifting effort some, but it is still not where I would like it.  It does appear to be slightly easier to shift with the engine on than with the engine off.

My conclusion at this point is that there is friction in the cable, when there is a load on it.  I removed the cover in the aft berth below the helm pedestal and there is some pretty sharp bends the cable goes through on the way to the transmission.

I should add that I am a Great Lakes sailor and the boat has never been in salt water.

Any other input from you mates would be appreciated.  Right now I am looking for a recommendation of the best lubricant to add to both ends of the cable.  Not sure if I should use oil, teflon spray, WD40 or what.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Ken Enstrom
2004 C-36 MKII #2199
Tall Rig, Wing Keel, M-35B
S/V Valkyrie - Sail Great Lakes

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Haro
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Posts: 403

Ken, it appears that you are on the right track. Lubrication is what is needed. I would use oil that is used to lubricated shavers such as Wahl. This oil has small molecules and it will penetrate the small crevices of the cable and it will not gum up. The other oil would be 3-in-1, commonly found in hardware stores. If your wife will not divorce you - her sawing machine oil is also a good one.
WD40 will wash away the lubrication - this is not a good choice.
Best of luck.

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newguy
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Posts: 408

Good to know that there's another guy with a wife out there that keeps her sewing machine oil out of my reach.  Ditto with her sewing scissors.  She caught me cutting paper with one of her sewing scissors and the scissors promptly became mine and she was off to the store to get a new (expensive) scissor.

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

knotdoneyet
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Posts: 253

Had the same problem and even broke the screw that held the shifter handle.  It ended up being the shaft for the shifter inside the pedestal that needed to be lubricated.  Major PITA to get to.  
 

2000 C36 MKII 1825

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ludo
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Posts: 92

Knotdoneyet!

The exact same thing happened to me today! Broke the screw that held the shifter handle :( How did you manage to remove the screw remaining in the hole?

Ludovic François
​Hotel Catalina - Catalina 36 Hull #883
Marina Del Rey, CA

pierview
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Posts: 582

I'm telling you from the "been there, done that" catalog, bite the bullet and replace the cable and your problems will be over. You can't lubricate all the way down the cable (which is about 7'-8' long as I recall).

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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newguy
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Posts: 408

I agree with Chuck.  Since it was bad when you got the boat in 2007 when the boat was only 3 years old, just bite the bullet and replace.

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

kenstrom
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Posts: 72

Thanks for all the input and advice.  Surprisingly (to me), the shifting has improved significantly after using 3 in 1 oil as best I can on both ends of the cable.  Not sure which end was the biggest problem, but after a few days the oil really must have penetrated the cable and is making a difference.  I will oil again and probably annually, and then if it ever gets tough again, time for a new cable.  Ishould not have put up with that problem for so long.  Wasn't really safe operating in tight quarters.  I am not looking forward to routing that through all the tight spots from pedestal to transmission.  I've only taken the top off of the pedestal, so diving down inside the pedestal post to get to the cable clamps would be a new experience.................

Ken Enstrom
2004 C-36 MKII #2199
Tall Rig, Wing Keel, M-35B
S/V Valkyrie - Sail Great Lakes

ozromingers
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Posts: 18

Hi, reading this thread was interesting as we have the same problem on our 1995 Catalina Mk2. although we have gotten used to this, I always believed that is how it is supposed to be. There have been occasions when the Comodore has been unable to shift the lever into neutral. Unless I am missing something, Where are the fixings located to remove the compass to gain access to the shift lever and top linkages?
Thanks
Bernd​

Bernd Rominger
1995 Catalina 36Mk2, Wing keel, Hull 1413
'BORN FREE'
Gippsland Lakes
Australia

pierview
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Posts: 582

Bernd... the compass actually just sits (tightly) on top of the housing. When you pull it up you'll see that there is a wire for the compass light.

The hard part is getting the chain off the wheel . It has to be lifted up and pushed to the side to get the cables off. Tha means loosening the steering cables (and then correctly tensioning them again.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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Mother Ocean
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Posts: 38

Motorcycle dealers sell a cable luber that clamps on a cable at one end, part on the outer housing and part on the inner cable. It has a rubber hole made for the straw of a can of lube to go into which allows one to use the pressure of the can to force lube from one end of the cable to the other. I have used this many times before and it works very well. Do a Google search on cable luber. The makers of these are Motion Pro or Petrochem Cable Care Kit and several others. Hope this helps. 

Tim Askew

 S/V Allure​
1990 Catalina 36 Hull # 1079
Std Rig, Wing Keel, M25XP
​3 Blade Auto Prop
​Elizabeth City, NC
 

William Miller
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Joined: 10/4/08
Posts: 294

This looks like the thing to get.My shifter is easy but this thing only costs around 8 dollars and looks like a good way to lube Watched the you tube video

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

ozromingers
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Posts: 18

Thanks everyone, I now have a lot of good information on solving the problem. Will let you know the outcome.
Regards Bernd

Bernd Rominger
1995 Catalina 36Mk2, Wing keel, Hull 1413
'BORN FREE'
Gippsland Lakes
Australia

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dwarren
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Posts: 26

Tim ~ the cable lubricator you mentioned looks like a very useful device.  Have you used it on your shift/throttle cables as yet?  I have been dreading having to tackle this project of cable replacement after reading many of the posts on this topic.  Will there be enough pressure from the spray canister to move the lubricant all the way from engine end up to binnacle end?

Dave 

Dave & Nancy Warren
"Blue Heron"
Norwalk Cove Marina, CT
2005 C-36 Mk II #2256
'Anniversary Edition'
Wing M35B

 

SteveC
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Posts: 1

Had the same cable issue on transmission on my 84, replaced the cable-- it was rusted in the shroud-- $60 item and works like a charm now
 

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Mother Ocean
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Posts: 38

I have used it to lube my shift and throttle cable. I had to tape off the ends where the cable housing pivots with electrical tape, the lube will come out at that point if not taped. Lube will penetrate to the other end as long as the cable is not blocked completely. This is a very good preventative practice to ensure the cable will operate smoothly. 

Tim Askew

 S/V Allure​
1990 Catalina 36 Hull # 1079
Std Rig, Wing Keel, M25XP
​3 Blade Auto Prop
​Elizabeth City, NC
 

William Miller
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Posts: 294

Which cable luber did you use?I bought the motion pro It did not fit so tried to cut it ,did not work too good

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

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dwarren
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Posts: 26

Tim - thanks for your reply.  Where is the cable housing pivot point located?  

Dave

Dave & Nancy Warren
"Blue Heron"
Norwalk Cove Marina, CT
2005 C-36 Mk II #2256
'Anniversary Edition'
Wing M35B

 

Talisman
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Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 243

I'm having the same problem. The cable luber works great but only fits the engine shut off cable not the tranny or speed.

Has anyone found a bigger one that fits the other cables?

Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
 

William Miller
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Posts: 294

So the one from moto pro was too small so I ordered the one from Petro Chem for ATVs. Its suppose to fit a cable up to 3/8 in.I got a email that they shiped yesterday so will let you know if it works

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

Talisman
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Posts: 243

Thanks Bill

Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
 

William Miller
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Joined: 10/4/08
Posts: 294

So I tried the petrochem cable luber that is for up to 3/8 cable and it works on the transmission cabe

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

William Miller
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Posts: 294

I bought it online at Parker Yamaha.com Part noPET-017 for13.89

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

Talisman
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Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 243

Thanks Bill

Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
 

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HowLin
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Posts: 355

This trick worked absolutely great for me... ​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j2xD_8k5yo 

I used a small electric air compressor I had and introduced the air/oil at the shifter end of the cable and waited until I saw oil at the cable end in the binnacle.  Works like new!
 

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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Mother Ocean
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Posts: 38

Sorry, I have been unavailable the last week or so. I did not realize they made 2 sizes of cable luber but it looks like you have it sorted out.

Tim Askew

 S/V Allure​
1990 Catalina 36 Hull # 1079
Std Rig, Wing Keel, M25XP
​3 Blade Auto Prop
​Elizabeth City, NC
 

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dwarren
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Posts: 26

Tim ~ not sure if you noticed my post/question...you made mention of a "cable housing pivot point" -- can you describe where that is located on the cable?  Thanks a bunch....

Dave

Dave & Nancy Warren
"Blue Heron"
Norwalk Cove Marina, CT
2005 C-36 Mk II #2256
'Anniversary Edition'
Wing M35B

 

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