Electric Flush Head

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Wavelength's picture
Wavelength
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Electric Flush Head

This is the first in a series of questions as I rebuild my recent purchase. At present I have removed all ports, the port bulkhead and associated rotten shelving, any doors and drawers that could easilly come off and the plywood sole. I have power washed all of these parts in preperation for sanding and varnishing this winter. ( this started today with 20 cm of snow) There are somethings I would like to have some comment on in making decissions.

The Admiral would like head to be electric. I have sourced 2 models of conversion kits. Raritan SeaEra and The Jabsco Quiet Flush. Has anyone had any experience with these and what would you recommend. I am connecting to the fresh water system as well to help eliminate odors.

Ross & Joanne
Wavelength
Saint John NB
RKYC
C36 #658 TR 1987

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stu jackson c34
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Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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Chachere
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Practical Sailor's Feb. 2011 issue had an article reporting on comparison tests of Raritan, Jabsco, Johnson, and Groco Electric-Flush Marine Toilets
[url]http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/37_2/features/Best-Marine-Electri...

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

BudStreet
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We have fresh water in the head by default (being on the Great Lakes) and for sure that doesn't eliminate odors, what's going in there takes a lot more than fresh water to make it smell like daisies!

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Wavelength
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Great article from Practical sailor and good information from the other sailing forum. The article is also posted on the Raritan site as a PDF. [URL="http://www.raritaneng.com/information/PS0211.pdf"]http://www.raritaneng.com/information/PS0211.pdf[/URL]

I will need to read throught the info to make the decision.

As for "fresh water" I am going to use tank water. I am on the St John River system and it is "fresh" water but it still has Lots of organisms that generate smells. City water is chlorinated and less likely to smell after sitting.

Ross & Joanne
Wavelength
Saint John NB
RKYC
C36 #658 TR 1987

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stu jackson c34
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[QUOTE=Wavelength;10949]

As for "fresh water" I am going to use tank water. [/QUOTE]

Ross, please don't. If you re-read Peggie's reply to you, she said use the head sink water for the last flush of the day, no need to waste fresh water all the time.

Here's how it's so simple even I could do it:

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.msg38216.html#msg38216[/url]

Check valves do NOT prevent bacteria from contaminating your domestic water system if connected directly.

This is for manual heads.

May be quite different for your electric unit.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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chs1517
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My boat came from the PO with an electric head. I ended up having to replace the unit since all of the gears and motor were corroded beyond use. It appears the PO used sea water to flush the unit, thus the corroded gears and motor.

I reinstalled a new electric toilet and have had no problems. After a day of sailing I alway make a point to turn off the head sea cock and flush the unit with fresh water using my shower head that's attached to the sink faucet. After the fresh water flush I pour in a little vinegar which doubles as a bowl cleaner and keeps anything that might grow in the water to a minimum.

The new electric head has now been in my boat for about three years without missing a flush. Other than the noise I like the convenience as does the captain. The only downside to the electric head is if your batteries go dead, so does the head.

Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA

caprice 1050
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I installed a Jabsco Electric head on Caprice three years ago. It was easy to install and works great. The only down side is the flushing is loud.

__/)__/)__/)__Capt Mike__/)__/)__/)__
Punta Gorda Florida
1990 Std WK M35 Hull #1050

pierview
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I put in the SeaEra head a few years ago and have had no problems with it. They do have a raw water or fresh water option so you need to order one or the other. The only somewhat "issue" I have with it is that you can't fill the bowl with water prior to use... it runs out... so if you are putting in a big load, so to speak, I simply push the flush button while in the "dump" mode of usage. Some people fill, or prime the bowl before use with water from the sink. This may be a problem with my unit and I have to call this winter to check with the company.

The other factor to be aware of is that the head (at least on my boat model) is on the port side behind the Vee birth.... the batteries are on the starboard side forward of the nav table. I was schocked at the cost of the cable needed to run from the baterries to the head... about the same cost as the head itself. I got the head on-line by the way at about $450 as I recall. Shop around as WM and others sell the same unit for around $600+.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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Channel Islander
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Two electric Raritan heads for sale cheap in Santa Barbara.

Let me know if you would like me to go check them out for you.

[url]http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/boa/2726778932.html[/url]

Nick

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

pierview
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One other aspect I forgot to mention... when you put in the new head you can angle it slightly forward so a normal human being can sit on it... MUCH more comfortable.

I apologize for forgetting who this contributor is (a "Glenn" I think) but he has posted everything you need for this project from a parts list to pictures of various stages of the installation.. he was extremely helpful with advice off-line too.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

catalinapilot
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You may want to visit the technical section upgrades of the site here and look at Plumbing System Makeover that I did on our C36 MKII. We installed a Raritan Sea Era and have been most pleased with it. It was time consuming but not especially difficult. There are step by step instructions.

Bruce
Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Chesapeake Bay

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Wavelength
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Thanks for all of the help. Sea Era will be the solution with the fresh water solenoid. I will turn the head at a slight angle as well and put a Starboard plate over the existing holes.

Now I just have get the best price and give it to the admiral for Christmas:D

Ross & Joanne
Wavelength
Saint John NB
RKYC
C36 #658 TR 1987

pierview
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Now there's a gift idea any husband would be proud of.... let us know how much it hurts after she hits you in the head with the head!

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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Hi Guys,
I actually installed a Raritan "Marine Elegance" electric head over the weekend. Couldn't be more pleased! It's certainly quieter than the main water pump...

The only modification we had to make was to cut a little notch/slot in the skin in order to slide the unit far enough back so that the forward edge didn't overhang at all. (See attachment...) I should mention - you only have about 1/2-3/4 of an inche between the hull liner and the actual hull - so be [B][I]careful[/I][/B] when cutting this notch! (Obviously - you don't want an impromptu through-hull...)

And we thought about (and mocked it up) angling it away from the bulkhead a bit, but found that wasn't really necessary. Once you don't have the hand-pump to deal with, you can slide the unit a couple inches toward the bow, giving you more than enough room for big guys like me... Plus, at an angle, we found that the lid hit the bulkhead and the cabinet...

For electrical, we actually tied into our cabin lights circuit, since we have converted to fully LED and had the amps to spare. And, we placed the control unit under the shower sump switch. It certainly saved having to run new wire all the way back to the panel.

The hardest part was wresting the 1-1/2" discharge hose into place without causing the toilet's discharge line to crimp...

By the way - we went with the freshwater, rather than the seawater (or combo). One less seacock to worry about failing, a good way to make sure you are cycling through your water supply, etc... (Plus - we have two watermakers (from the PO), so 20oz per flush doesn't really concern us while cruising...)

I definitely recommend the upgrade. I hope this helps! Cheers!
- Steve

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Steve Ramsey - Puget Sound
S/V Manonash - '96 C36 mkII (#1586) - M35B

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J.R. Seago
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Steve
What  control did you go with and where did you mount it?
Thanks

J.R. Seago
Seago'er
1984 MK I
Dana Point, CA

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Steve,
I hate to throw a wet blanket on your project, but have you looked at the specs of your new electric head? I'm pretty sure the wiring for the cabin light circuit is only 14 ga., and possibly the length of the wiring run and amperage requires heavier wire. Just a thought.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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Hi Tom,
Yep - thanks for the note.

We did a test using the cabin lights circuit, just to make sure everything was running and haven't been back to the boat yet. There actually wasn't much documentation with the unit, and certainly nothing specific to wire gauges, etc... But, with the lead wire coming out of the toilet being 14ga, I thought it would be fine for now...

I was also thinking of tying into the secondary watermaker circuit (10ga wire) instead... Then, install a switch for the watermaker, so that it will be bypassed until actually needed. What do you think?

Good catch, Tom. Thanks!

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Steve Ramsey - Puget Sound
S/V Manonash - '96 C36 mkII (#1586) - M35B

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deising
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First, thanks for sharing your info and pics, Steve.

Second, my admiral actually ASKED for an electric head for Christmas a few years ago.

Third, our Jabsco conversion kit (basically replaces the manual pump with an electric one) draws 20+ amps for the few seconds it runs, so I ran #10AWG marine wire directly from the battery with a 30A fuse right near the battery. That thing is VERY loud and not worth it for me personally, but if it makes the admiral happy....

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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TomSoko
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Steve,
After reading Duane's comments, I feel more strongly that you shouldn't be running the new electric head thru the cabin light circuit and wiring. I just read the owner's manual online, and it draws 18A. It really needs its own breaker and heavier wiring. According to the manual, you need a 25A breaker and #8 or #10 wiring (page 6). Without knowing how your panel is set up, I really can't tell you what to do. If you are running out of breakers/circuits, there are several things you could do. You could buy or build a new panel with more circuits. You could move the battery switch to another location, giving yourself more room for breakers on the panel. You could add a secondary panel with more breakers. Either way, you need to change the wiring you have now, and add a dedicated fuse or breaker (preferred). Possibly you could combine two small-amp circuits, and replace a small breaker with a 25A breaker for the head? Hope this helps.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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deising
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One thing in your favor is that it should not be drawing its current for more than 3-5 seconds, if it is like ours. While that is not enough time to overheat marginally sized wiring, there will be a higher than desirable voltage drop which is not great for the motor and tries to draw even higher current to compensate for the low voltage.

In the event that the motor was stuck ON for any significant length of time, however, marginal wiring will overheat with potentially bad results. I did not choose the 'ideal' wiring option (with its own separate circuit breaker), nor did I add a switch to the wiring, but those are good ways to go. I did add the fuse to the wire and made sure the wiring was very adequate.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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Tom- thanks for the note about an online manual. I just downloaded it and it's 100x more complete and helpful than what came in the box.

I'm not sure if you saw my updated post, but I'm planning on moving things over to the secondary standalone watermaker circuit anyway (10ga wire, 25amp breaker) with a switch between (in case we ever actually need to fire up a second watermaker???)

Good tips, folks. Thanks for the help. I'll be at the boat most of today, getting the new dodger installed, so I'll have some time to thing through things more thoroughly before we actually put the head into active use (only ran two test flushes so far....)

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Steve Ramsey - Puget Sound
S/V Manonash - '96 C36 mkII (#1586) - M35B

FlyMeAway
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Resurrecting this old threat; I'm thinking of installing a Raritan Marine Elegance before next season.

Here's a thought -- wondering what the rest of you think. So that I don't have to run completely new wires and install a new panel, could I add an A/B switch near the holding tank, use the existing wire run for the macerator to get from port to starboard, then run wires forward next to the holding tank for the electric head?? I've used the macerator once in four years, and rarely cruise in an area where that kind of discharge is allowed -- so am comfortable with the idea of a relatively inaccessible switch.

I'm not near the boat so can't verify the size wires that go to the macerator, but I suspect given that it's a powerful motor, they are fairly thick.

Thoughts on this? Thanks!

David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA

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