I am about to get myself or some lucky friend to the mast head to mount my new Raymarine i-60 wind transducer and drop 98ft of cable down the mast. Before I go up there I'm trying to understand as much as possible about what I will find when I get there. I only have three lights on the mast, the foredeck light and steaming light at the spreaders and the anchor light on top. Then the VHF ant on top with its coax cable going up inside. So that's three wires and the cable plus main, jib and spinacker halyards. Warren Pandy at Catalina in Largo told me to expect to find a PVC conduit running down the front inside of the mast, so I'm hoping for that. It would be helpful if anyone else has done this job and has any good tricks for getting a messenger line down and pulling transducer cable out the bottom. Also the one small (maybe3/4") hole at the mast base is already very crowded so I'm thinking I'll have to cut another hole or widen the existing one. The things I hope to get experienced advice on are: best ways to get up there and back safely, ideas on insulating against mast rattle, and any tricks to get that cable down through the other wires cables and conduit.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Sam
Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida
Here is my thoughts. I believe the wind transducer cable has a plug on the side that must be on the top of the mast. So the cable must be fed from the top of mast down to the bottom of the mast.
If I was going to handle this project I would go to the top of the mast and remove the wire connected to the anchor light and have someone else pull this wire down from the bottom. If the opening where the wires are existing is too small - then you will have to enlarge it. I would drill 1/4" polote hole 1" away from the existing hole. Place a pipe over the drill bit so that it does not go too far into the mast - only enough to penetrate the wall. Then use one of those drill bits that have steps on them to enlarge to 3/4" hole.
Lubricate the connection with wire pulling compound - found at Home Deport - and continue to lubricate the wires as it is pulled from the bottom. Use a coat hanger wire with a loop at the end to pull out the wire that is inside the mast.
After the transducer wire reaches at the bottom and exits the opening, have the tape removed and disconnected from the 12 AGW wire and continue pulling the remaining part of the transducer wire. Then pull back up the wire for the anchor light.
The lubrication will make the job much nicer and yes there is a 2" conduit inside the mast.
If the wires will not move easily - do not apply too much force as the tape will break and you will loose the wire in the mast. Back the wire up and start again. The yellow lubrication is a type of soap that is a paste and when dries it becomes powder. It can be applied by hand. Scoop up into your palm and pull the wire through your palm and apply an ample amount - specially at the beginning of the pull.
Let us know how it went.
Sail La Vie 1999 Catalina 36 MKII, M35B-17031, Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA
About Sail La Vie
There should be a PVC conduit running down the interior leading edge of the mast. See the photos of my radar cable, for a radar scanner mounted a little above the spreaders. The wires you see inside the conduit are for the anchor light and foredeck light. I also added a wind sensor at the masthead, but it hadn't been installed at the time of these photos.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
installing the Raymarine wind Instruments and a new LED mast head light are next up on my project list. I am planning to have the mast pulled and work on things at ground level. For me the determining factor was the lack of space at the bottom end of things - Yesterday I pulled all the lines running back to the cabin top and pulled the boom. It and the spinnaker pole are now in the cabin. I will be scheduling the mast pull and haul out later today. I will also be running all new halyards, including a spare jib halyard that was "missing" when I bought the boat. I hope there is sufficient room in the conduit for all the wires, if not I'll use the cable tie trick and let it dangle on the inside.
Les
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
It's probably too late for this bit of advice but there is a company in England called Nasa that makes a bluetooth wind instrument. It's called the Clipper. The sending unit at the top of the mast and the display unit sell for less than $500 depending on the exchange rate. It's solar powered, there are no wires to run and installation is very simple. I bought it for my boat last fall and so far am very pleased.
http://www.clippermarineusa.com/instruments.php
Les, I haven't removed my mast since the day I got the boat. You don't need to have the stick at ground level for this job. You would need some trustworthy buddies to use your windlass to haul you to the top of the mast, though.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Larry
as I said above, I'm not concerned with the top end. In the cabin where the wires exit the mast there is maybe 1/2 inch between the mast and the seat fiberglass bulked. Then in the Under seat area the box for the holding tank is within 1/2 inch of where the wires enter this compartment. There is no way short of pulling the holding tank then removing the holding tank box ( and glassing it back in when done) to even think about accessing the new wires. I'm fairly sure I will need to drill a new exit hole in both the mast and glass bulkhead.
That said my "trusty" friends would also need to be weight lifters to hoist my dainty ~ 300lb frame up the stitch. I'm not too stoked having to spend 1k for removal and reinstall. Not to mention worrying about bending a furling foil that are no longer available
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
Here is a picture of the top of my mast. Hope it helps. The other thing to keep in mind is the
spreader bracket going thru the mast
Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.
I understand, Les. You'll be pleased when it's all done, for sure.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Pulled the mast yesterday. There was several gallons of semi-frozen water inside the mast that got the guy down in the cabin wet. No problems adding my two wires into the conduit. There was a pull string in the top of the conduit - but nothing coming out of the bottom. I used 2-33' fiberglass pull rods (3' sections) from harbor freight - This worked great!! A also used wire pulling lube - I don't know if necessary but had no problems - pulling about 4 feet at a time (walk to the base and pull, go back to the top and straighting the wires). One of the wires was fairly big 14/5 which a bit over 1/2 " the existing VHF was about the same. Still need to drill and tap and connect up the wires.
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
Just ordered the wind, depth, speed, temp kit from Defender. Intend to use the coax from my TV antenna I never use to feed it down my furling mast. Give an update when I do it.
2000 C36 MKII 1825
Thanks to all for the kind and valuable replies. I was delayed from attacking this project due to some minor surgery and associated recovery time, but now I'm reading your great ideas and suggestions and about to tackle it full bore. I'll provide a de-brief in a few days or so.
Thanks much,
Sam
Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida
Finally after a few weeks of delay I can post a happy ending to this post. I greatly appreciate the good ideas from you all, especially from Haro for the ideas about using the existing anchor light cable as a messenger and the Yellow wire pulling lubricant. Both those ideas worked very well. And Larry Brandt's input about the pvc conduit was right on. I hired a team of two guys here in Panama City, Fl, who are experienced in mast climbing and doing this kind of work. Instead of just using the existing anchor cable to pull the new wind transducer wire down the mast they also wanted to replace the old anchor cable with a new one. So, we hauled down the old anchor wire and attached the top end of it to the new one and to that they attached a heavy chord, We used the chord to pull down the new Wind Transducer cable. I didn't have to enlarge the 3/4" hole at the base of the mast, since we were pulling cable's our to it. And there was no need to fish for the wires at the base or to add weights to cables since they were being pulled. The most complicated issue was that the new dropped transducer cable had to come down through a different hole than the old anchor light cable. That required some real ingenuity on the part of the man aloft. If anyone needs to know the details.
All is well now and working fine.
Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida
Glad it worked out for you. Mine is also up and spinning. I still need to calibrate it but it is within a couple degrees of being straight. Cost to pull and replace the mast was about 800. By pulling the stick the wires are supported in a cable clamp and not putting tension on the connections
les
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
Getting a fair amount of "clank" from cables inside the mast on evenings with rocky seas. I've decided either my PVC conduit is missing OR it's not secure down low. Can someone enlighten me as to whether the conduit truly runs the entire length (or possibly stops short allowing some free movement of cables) and what secures the conduit in place to begin with? ( I'm thinking it may actually be loose and doing the clanking itself rather than just the cables.)
Thanks!
Scott "Bone" H.
s/v Inner Chi
1989 C36 Mrk I, Hull 925
Land Locked in Kansas w/Dorothy
Perry Yacht Club
The conduit is held in place with regular pop rivets. Starts about 1.5 feet up from the bottom of the mast and stops about 10" below the masthead. I really don't know the configuration at the spreaders but suspect a hole in the conduit rather than two pieces. Replacing or reattaching the conduit can be challenging
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
The conduit is held in place with regular pop rivets. Starts about 1.5 feet up from the bottom of the mast and stops about 10" below the masthead. I really don't know the configuration at the spreaders but suspect a hole in the conduit rather than two pieces. Replacing or reattaching the conduit can be challenging
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
Thanks, Les. I'm gonna take a look this weekend. I'm guessing the prior owner was too lazy to run the new wind indicator wiring down the conduit. Won't be the first item I've found on the boat a little off.
Oh well... Love her anyway.
Scott "Bone" H.
s/v Inner Chi
1989 C36 Mrk I, Hull 925
Land Locked in Kansas w/Dorothy
Perry Yacht Club
Hitting it from the top would probably require you to have .5to .75 on the top. Be sure our are outboard enough to miss the shives and supports. The sensor wire is not firm enough to push down the conduit and a weighted string would also get hung up going down. I personally like the 3' fiberglass rods from Harbor Freight it takes two 33' sections. Push sections and wire down and fish it out when the rod hits the bottom. Hard part is getting snake in conduit and fishing it out at the bottom. Once fished out you can go back up the mast to remove the rods and mount the sensor.
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore
Les - I would think it is impossible to pull out the fiberglass rod from the bottom of the mast. What I would do is to tie a 24" string at the end of the first rod then start sliding it down the mast. When it is at the bottom - then use a coat hanger wire with a 1/4" hook at the end to fish out the string and use that to pull back the wire.
Sail La Vie 1999 Catalina 36 MKII, M35B-17031, Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA
About Sail La Vie
Sam you would pull the rod back out the top. Rod+wire going down. Rod only common back up. I agree on it not coming out the bottom. Lack of space at the bottom end is what drove be to pull my stick.
Les
Les & Trish Troyer
Mahalo
Everett, WA
1983 C-36 Hull #0094
C-36 MK 1 Technical Editor.
Commodore