My experience is that the C36 turns almost on its own axis, so unless there is a frequent very unusual circumstance, why would you need a bow thruster?

That was my first thought, too, John. But then I recalled a recent humiliation at Sidney, BC, and said...well, maybe it's not a bad idea. I wouldn't put a bow thruster in a C36, of course, because I am addicted to the adrenaline thrill of never quite being sure what's going to happen when I enter a marina - but I can see why Allan and others would consider it.

You know, I can go two, even three, years handling my boat perfectly, winds, current, singlehanded, and it's even easier with another person aboard, and then, once in a long while, as sure as flowers bloom in the spring some small 'surprise' will happen to 're-calibrate' my brain. This happened a month or so back at Port Sidney, with a quartering wind, way back in the cul-de-sac of the fairway, when I missed getting the bow into the slip. I immediately saw the problem develop and so just kept the bow and stern clear, and the wind just gently docked me at the end of the fairway. Used to be I would get very upset with these (increasingly rare, thank god) flubs, but no boats touched. I smiled at the guy on the dock and said, "Hey. Mother Nature simply decided I was going to dock here."

My obsolete famous apothegm: "Close quarter boat handling is like playing chess...you have to think many moves ahead."

My new soon-to-be-famous apothegm: "Close quarter boat handling is like playing chess for money."

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;5703]That was my first thought, too. But then I recalled a recent humiliation at Sidney, BC, and said...well, maybe it's not a bad idea. I wouldn't put a bow thruster in a C36, of course, because I like the thrill of never quite being sure what's going to happen - but I can see why others would consider it.

You know, I can go two, even three, years handling my boat perfectly, singlehanded, winds, current, and it's even easier with another person aboard, and then, as sure as flowers bloom in the spring some small 'surprise' will happen to "re-calibrate" my brain. This happened a month or so back at Port Sidney, with a quartering wind, way back in the cul-de-sac of the fairway, when I missed getting the bow into the slip. I just kept the bow and stern clear, and the wind just gently docked me at the end of the fairway. Used to be I would get very upset with these (increasing rare) flubs, but no boats touched. I smiled at the guy on the dock and said, "Hey. Mother Nature simply decided I was going to dock here."

My obsolete famous apothegm: "Close quarter boat handling is like playing chess...you have to think many moves ahead."

My new soon-to-be-famous apothegm: "Close quarter boat handling is like playing chess for money."[/QUOTE]

Come back in July or August and try to get away with docking where Mother Nature puts you:). Port Sidney isn't very forgiving in the high season!

We chartered a Bene 50 in Croatia and found that almost all charter boats there are equipped with bow thrusters. We found it very useful in the tight quarters while med tieing. But I agree that the 36 is very forgiving when backing down in tight quarters.

Larry I have to agree with you about docking. As I come into any dock I always look at the tops of other masts to see what way the wind is blowing. That kind of gets me set up mentally what to expect. But as you say, mother natures does take over at times.

Randy

Worst part for me is the prop walk in reverse, I hoped it would be less than the 28 was but it's just about as bad. We have a starboard dock this year and it is loads of fun getting in (NOT!).

On a port side dock I can park it exactly where I want it. On starboard, we need to use some creative rope work. Fortunately the prevailing winds usually put us on the dock which helps but this year we've had a lot of east winds which puts us off and makes for exciting times.

Not sure how a bow thruster would help that, I think a stern thruster would be better!!

my slip is on the last pier at my marina, so nothing across from me. Perfect. Or so it would seem. However, I go in stern 1st. As stated above, since I come in with the slips on my port side, the stern walk is helpful for getting in. Unless the wind is from the south. My slip faces south, and the wind will blow the bow off to one side or the other, making it very, very difficult to get in. A bow thruster would be useful in these situations. However, I've looked at several boats in the marina that have them, and it's a big hole; has to have a lot of drag.

We have a large power boat docked directly behind our berth across the fairway. This doesn't leave a lot of room, but it's still not that hard getting in and out once you get used to it. One thing I found about reversing: If I give the motor a burst at high revolutions, then lower it and shift to neutral, I get less prop walk than if I motor steadily at low revolutions.

In any case, if you need a bow thruster once every few years for docking... is it really worth it? A 50 foot boat - that's a different matter.

Compared to my previous boat(Peterson 35) the C36 can be slow to respond in reverse..a little wind on the bow.... and more sternway is required for any predictability..I have had a couple of uncomfortable "moments".I knew about this before i bought the boat as a broker i know(who docks a lot of boats),mentioned it,saying it was likely due to the smaller rudder on the C36.I wonder if Catalina did any rudder mods for the 1990 that i am sailing...anyway,i love the boat,stiff and predictable in all other scenarios

Allan,

I'm curious -- did you decide to add a bow thruster? I am thinking about doing the same in my C36 MK II!

I have a wing keel and I think the steerage on the wing keel version is very different than a fin keel. I feel I slide around corners and do not turn as sharp as other 36 foot boats. Backing first south out of a slip and then west with an east wind it is easy to get the stern where I want, but hard to bring the bow around with that east wind. The wind grabs it and the wing keel does not "bite" enough to bring the bow around. I'm investigating a thruster DIY add on.

My first Captain in the Navy said, "Shiphandling is the art of the timely correction of your last mistake." Just as applicable to a C36 as it was to a destroyer!

[QUOTE=kenstrom;18772]I have a wing keel and I think the steerage on the wing keel version is very different than a fin keel. I feel I slide around corners and do not turn as sharp as other 36 foot boats. Backing first south out of a slip and then west with an east wind it is easy to get the stern where I want, but hard to bring the bow around with that east wind. The wind grabs it and the wing keel does not "bite" enough to bring the bow around. I'm investigating a thruster DIY add on.[/QUOTE]

I have a wing keel, and never noticed any issues. But, when I leave the marina, the wind direction dictates which way I go. As I back in, and therefore drive straight out. If the wind is blowing from the port side, I turn starboard and get clear of the pen, the back out of the marina.

A little planning and flexibility helps. Have you considered using a spring line to help you make a sharp turn?

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I have thought about using a spring line, but have not due to sometimes I am single handed, and lots going on already. Also never wanted to get a line into the prop. But, it is better and easier than hitting another boat, etc.

BTW, what kind of prop do you have? Fixed blade, or ??

[QUOTE=bstreet;5710]Worst part for me is the prop walk in reverse, I hoped it would be less than the 28 was but it's just about as bad. We have a starboard dock this year and it is loads of fun getting in (NOT!).
[/QUOTE]

The trick I've discovered with a starboard dock is coming in at the right angle. If you're docking at a starboard finger pier, make sure you are coming in with the dock on your port side (so that you execute a turn to port to get into your slip). In my marina, this actually requires that I go past my slip and do a 360 (always fun!) to approach from the right direction.

If you are in forward and turning to port, putting the boat in reverse with port prop walk will arrest your turn and straighten the boat as you stop. This takes some getting used to, and a lot of practice, but ends up being (almost!) as easy as getting into a port side slip.

To give a little more detail, in case this doesn't make sense. As you turn to port in forward, your stern is swinging out to starboard and continues to have momentum to starboard even after you put the engine in neutral and straighten the rudder. In that situation, port prop walk stops the sterns momentum to starboard and straightens you out as you stop. I never would have thought of this but for my slip neighbors, who are "old hands" (they're professional riggers and former instructors with 30+ years of experience) and suggested it (they were tired of me banging their fenders every time I came in to dock). I didn't believe them at first, but having tried it out about half a dozen times now -- boy does it work!

[QUOTE=shulme801;15296]Allan,

I'm curious -- did you decide to add a bow thruster? I am thinking about doing the same in my C36 MK II![/QUOTE]

Thinking of the same thing. Any progress on your end?

[QUOTE=jworth3;18777]My first Captain in the Navy said, "Shiphandling is the art of the timely correction of your last mistake." Just as applicable to a C36 as it was to a destroyer![/QUOTE]

I love that, Joe!

I got quotes from 5 places and today I finally decided to go ahead and get a bow thruster installed. I know it's pretty unconventional for a boat as small as a 36' sailboat, but 15 years ago roller furling main was uncommon and it was not much before that when refrigeration, autopilots, and a bunch of other today's common conveniences were uncommon.

The docking techniques that lots of people mention are all good and most of them work pretty well. What's not mentioned is that many techniques are not good enough to work when you're single handed and there is 15-20 knots on your beam right at the dock. Also not mentioned is that many of the methods have to be done perfectly in difficult conditions in order to work. If you get it almost right and the 75 year old woman on the foredeck (your only deck hand) misses catching a line, then there is no [I]"plan B"[/I] other than bumping into the neighbor's boat. I've been extra nervous at times, like when it was blowing hard and my transient slip was next to a brand new $500,000 Tartan, just dropped into the water the week before.

I'll probably use the thruster rarely and continue to work on developing docking skills, but it will be nice to have it at the ready.

Ken, YES! I also believe the handling of a fin keel versus shoal keel is different. I have noticed this on a number of different brands of sailboats.

So to bring up this again What if you could giet a bow thruster for around 2000$ with no drag and no holes cut in your boat and not taking up space under the v berth and no wiring to be done?Sounds good I just put one on my boat and it works great Took about 4-5 hours to install but this is the first to be installed on a sailboat and the owner of the company is going to change some things to make it quicker.This is a do it yourself install.I wish I would have thought of this. Go to dockstar thruster to see the video and install.48 North a sailing mag will be writting up on my boat in the next couple months