Reefing Point Blocks

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catalinapilot
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Reefing Point Blocks

There is a fair amount of friction in running the jiffy reef lines through the grommet at the luff . I've seen people rig a block and use a stainless ring on the other side of the grommet to hold the block in place.

Wondered if anyone had done it and what type of block they used - there must be 50 variations

Bruce
Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Chesapeake Bay

windward1
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Bruce,

I did this reefing update to my boat and it is much better. The friction on the reefing line is considerably less. I found the "how to do it" article in Main Sheet[/ August, 2004 in the C 380/390 section. All of the Harken blocks are identified as well as other parts. I think I have the article saved on my computer which I could send to you if I can find it. The only issue I had was that my reefing line is rigged to a stop on the port side. I had to reroute the reefing line which runs through the boom from the starboard sheave at the aft end of the boom to the port sheave. This involves removing the end cap on the boom and fishing the line from the starboard side to the port side. This makes sense if you see the pictures in the article. This project is well worth the effort at a minimal cost.

Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan

catalinapilot
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Richard....

That would be most helpful. Also, perhaps you have a link to the C-380 site - although I'll look.

Bruce
Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Chesapeake Bay

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mogline
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Bruce,
I replaced Shadow's main last year. After much discussion with the North loft I use we decided to have two reefs, and to keep the single line system. To help with the friction at the luff they stiched 1 1/2 inch stainless rings to a 6 inch section of webbing inserted thru the reefing cringle. We then shackled a 2.5 inch Harken block to one of the rings and routed the reefing lines through these. The sailmaker couldn't decide on the correct size block so we opted for one with higher working load/ breaking load then they thought we would see. No blocks at the leech. I was hoping for some sort of gigantic improvement, but the reality is that the single line system has so many turns that a lot friction is inevitable. The blocks helped some, especially when shaking out the reef, but they also added another possible failure point so all in all I am not sure I'm going to keep them. This is pretty much what North told me, but I decided to give it a try understanding I can just cut the webing if I want and go back to the factory set up. If I want faster reefing I'll go with conventional slab reefing every day, but since I've given up racing I've opted for the security of staying in the cockpit. So what if it takes a little longer, I'm cruising.

Mike Ogline
SHADOW #1831
2000 SR/WK
Deltaville - Chesapeake Bay

catalinapilot
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Mike....

Interesting that you didn't get much improvement. The sewn Tab and ring is a simple solution that forgoes the "ring thing" on the opposite side of the sail. I'll call my sail maker and ask his thoughts.

Wonder if anyone else has had any experience in this area.

Many Thanks.

Bruce
Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Chesapeake Bay

windward1
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Bruce,

If you want to send me your email address, I can, hopefully, attach a copy of the article that I saved on my computer. I think running the reefing line thru blocks was a big improvement.
Richard

Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan

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pmeyers
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Richard,
Any chance that you might be able to a copy of that article here?
I would also be very interested in reading it,
Paul

Paul Meyers
1986 Catalina 36
Hull #615
Ventura, California

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HowLin
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[QUOTE=pmeyers;13635]Richard,
Any chance that you might be able to a copy of that article here?
I would also be very interested in reading it,
Paul[/QUOTE]

Me too! Otherwise please send to my email in members info...

I've thought of improving the factory single line system on 'Silhouette' or just getting rid of it and going back to reefing the leech via the line and going up to the luff as I've always had in other boats, less friction, less possible failure - but have to leave the cockpit...

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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Double line reefing, for me, having had experiences with the ram's horn, single line reefing and now double line, is that double line led aft to the cockpit is preferred. I find it far superior, since it's safer. Plus you never need the same tension on the tack as you do the clew. The clew needs a lot of force.

When ya think about it, the OEM setup with the ram's horn is actually double line reefing: the horn does the tack and the clew is a separate line. Right?

Only difference suggested is to run it back to the cockpit.

I wrote this based on a recent experience, and it doesn't matter where you sail, if you need to reef, you need to reef. As [B][I]safely [/I][/B]as possible.

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6783.msg46861.html#msg46861[/url]

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

catalinapilot
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I found the article Main Sheet[/ August, 2004 in the C 380/390 section which specifies the block sizes. The Harken Carboblocks have a working load of 475 lbs which I guess is adequate. The whole thing seems simple enough but I'm curious why Mike didn't get some serious reduction in friction.

Bruce
Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Chesapeake Bay

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HowLin
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Stu; I have to disagree with you.
Having sailed since 1984 and many years of that out of Prince Rupert, adjacent to the gulf of Alaska, I've experienced many different situations of high winds/seas in several different boat designs.
While it is preferable to stay in the safety of the cockpit at all times when in heavy weather, it is extremely important to have an efficient method to reef as quickly as possible.
If and I say IF, the single line reefing system has significant friction, (and I'm not saying all do) then it will only be exacerbated in 20+ knots of wind. If I find my 'new-to-me' C36 will not reef quickly and efficiently with the oem system I will revert to reefing the clew from the cockpit after adjusting the tack at the gooseneck as I always have (wearing a harness of course when at the mast). It is tried and proven method.
Of course, if my oem single-line system works great then it's a moot point and I'll be a happy camper staying in the cockpit! :D

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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tim_farrell
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If any have diagrams or pics of how they are rigged For reefing, I would love to see them. My new to me c36 came with no reeling lines whatsoever. Thanks in advance.

Tim Farrell
S.V. Kailua
C36 - 1986
Hull# CTY0678A886

feigersailing
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Posts: 17

count me in also, I just purchased a 36T MK1 and it has no reefing lines installed. I haven't needed to reef yet, and I think it can be done but no where as easily as with the system I believe these boats came with.

Fred & Cathy
Black Magic
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #315
Traverse City, MI

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Nimue
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I know it is 'old fashioned' at this point but I am a strong advocate for the reefing/halyard setup I use on my boat, which is to have the main and genoa halyards on or at the mast, and the reefing controls (must be two lines) controlled from the gooseneck.

1. Its not that hard to get to the mast in rough weather and once there it is a very stable place to stand.

2. Genoa halyard does not need to be in the cockpit on a boat with furling, and this keeps the clutter out of the cockpit. Under my dodger the only lines led aft are the spinnaker halyard and spinnaker pole lift/downhaul, and traveller lines.

3. I have to go on deck to pull the main down most of the time, at least if the halyard is at the mast I can do both jobs without running back and forth. Its also much easier to hoist the main when I can pull downwards on the halyard at the mast, rather than hoisting with my shoulders in the cockpit.

4. When reefing, I can control the main halyard, tack, and clew controls all from one position.

5. Running reef lines down from the boom to the deck puts HUGE loads on what I consider to be a barely adequate gooseneck design on these boats.

My main complaint with the original (mk 1) stock reefing setup is that the reef line is external on the boom, which makes a mess when the reef line is not in use. I am building a new boom this fall in my spare time and it will have all internal rigging, while still having the reef and outhaul stuff adjusted at the gooseneck area.

Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada

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LCBrandt
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feigersailing and Tim, no reefing lines??? None?

Reefing is one of the most important things you need to do on a sailing vessel. You do it not just for safety, but also for boat balance...the bottom line of which is that with the right amount of sail up the boat goes faster. And, most importantly...the sailing instructor doesn't get scared (as I used to tell my students when they were over canvassed and rail under.)

Owner manuals for both the Catalina 36 Mark I and Mark II are in the C36IA Technical library, accessible under the Technical tab from the C36IA home page. (You must be a paid up Member - capital M - of the C36IA to view this important information.) These manuals describe the proper way to rig the running gear on our boats. If any of you do not have reefing lines, PLEASE go direct to these manuals and use them to properly rig your boats. And then get an instructor on a windy day to walk you through reefing, heaving to, and tacking and jibing in those conditions.

I tell the story of my teaching an ASA Coastal Cruising class one weekend in the San Juan Islands. After leaving our anchorage, we headed out of the bay under full sail, rail under, everyone having a helluva time. We were making 4.5 knots in this 32 ft Pearson. "What can we do to make this boat go faster?" I asked the students. "Put up more sail," they said. "But we don't have more; everything we've got is up already," I replied. "What about taking sail down?" I asked. "Naw...that wouldn't help." "Nope." "Impossible." Unanimity amongst the students. "Let's try it," I said. We heaved to, reefed, then jibed out of the heave to, and - Wonder of Wonders - we picked up a knot and a half!

Reefing is sailing. Ya gotta do it, and when you do you'll almost always be glad you did.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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LCBrandt
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By the way, the fastest speed I've ever seen on my knotmeter in normal sailing conditions (i.e., not skidding down a wave) was with full 135 genny and one reef in the main, headed up Puget Sound in about 22 knots true wind. 8.2 kts sustained, on a calibrated knotmeter.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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[QUOTE=HowLin;13693]Stu; I have to disagree with you.

While it is preferable to stay in the safety of the cockpit at all times when in heavy weather, it is extremely important to have an efficient method to reef as quickly as possible.

If and I say IF, the single line reefing system has significant friction, (and I'm not saying all do) then it will only be exacerbated in 20+ knots of wind. [/QUOTE]

Howard,

Actually I think we are in agreement. My post was about double line reefing, if you go back and note the comparison to the OEM two line setup.

I find single line reefing to be a joke. They may work for some, but with much higher loads required on the clew, I don't understand how one line can avoid over tightening the tack while supplying enough for the clew. And v/v. Blocks on single line reefing have nothing to do with the design concept on one line doing both.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

BudStreet
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I put blocks on the luff side of the sail for both reefs this year. They make a big difference. We reefed in gusts up to 30 K twice in the last couple of weeks and it was fine, once right when we got caught in the mess known as CORK at Kingston, that was thrilling in a very bad way, but the reefing went fine. Way better than with no blocks.

I am going to add blocks on the luff side as well but we need to get tabs sewn in there. I expect once that is done it will be even better. I used Gaurhauer blocks that are rated at 1075 lbs. They were on sale and I figured bigger is better. We can reef and unreef without leaving the cockpit.

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Channel Islander
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Bud,

how did you fasten the blocks to the reef cringles? Would love to see a pic.

thx

nick

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

BudStreet
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There are heavy nylon webbing straps with SS rings on them sewn through the reef points on the sail. I just attached the blocks to them. Those are the straps I need to get sewn in on the leech to be able to put my other blocks on there. Not sure if I'll be able to get a pic, due to scheduling problems with the crane lift out day at our marina and a 3 week holiday we are taking in Sept. we likely are having to pull the mast next weekend which just sucks. But we spent just under 90 days aboard this summer so can't scream too much I guess.

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Channel Islander
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Thanks Bud. What's the reason for the strap? Could one not simply shackle the block to the cringle, or perhaps to a SS ring on the other side of the cringle? I assume the strap is intended to avoid chafing? But I don't see how here would be much difference if the block was fastened directly to the cringle. That's how the PO had them on my previous boat, if I remember.

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

windward1
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The Main Sheet article indicates the Harken blocks and SS rings to use. I used the rings on the opposite side of the sail of the blocks to hold the blocks in place-very easy to disassemble if you want to.

Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan

BudStreet
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[quote=Channel Islander;14580]Thanks Bud. What's the reason for the strap? Could one not simply shackle the block to the cringle, or perhaps to a SS ring on the other side of the cringle? I assume the strap is intended to avoid chafing? But I don't see how here would be much difference if the block was fastened directly to the cringle. That's how the PO had them on my previous boat, if I remember.[/quote]

You would need a really big shackle on the block to do that and I think the wear on the sail would be pretty bad. The Garhauer blocks I got have small shackles and even though they're heavier than recommended for this purpose the shackles wouldn't come near to fitting except in the SS rings.

These straps had been put in there for that use but I don't know by whom, it appears to be the original sail from Catalina that came with the boat so likely from the factory? I just know this worked well and will be even better when I get the two blocks on the leech.

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Channel Islander
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I think I am going to try these nifty blocks: [url]http://www.goiot.com/pdf/p48a.pdf[/url]

Some good write-ups on them at cruisersforum.

Probably I will use SS rings to put regular blocks at the luff with their own lines and then use these Goiot reefing cringle blocks on the leach.

Thanks for all the tips!

- nick

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

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plaineolde
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any idea where you can get those? google search didn't find anything.

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

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gforaker
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[QUOTE=plaineolde;14591]any idea where you can get those? google search didn't find anything.[/QUOTE]

They should be available here - [URL="http://www.plastimousa.com/Goiot.htm"]http://www.plastimousa.com/Goiot.htm[/URL]

Gene Foraker
Sandusky Yacht Club
Sandusky, OH
1999  C36  #1786
Gypsy Wagon

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Channel Islander
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I just ordered a pair of these from Navimo USA at 866-383-1888 - talked to a nice Irish guy named Chris. Navimo are the US wholesaler for Goiot but he agreed to sell me a pair directly. The cost was $104. They won't be here for a month or so since they strangely don't keep any in stock. if they are as good as advertised I might set up as a West Coast distributor!!

I will report back once I get 'em.

- nick

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

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plaineolde
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OK, let me know if you be come the West Coast distributor; but hey, I live on the East Coast. What am I supposed to do??:confused:

Funny thing is, I'd often thought that something just like this product would be a great solution for the single line reefing system. Too bad I didn't patent it first.!

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

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Channel Islander
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Gary, there are a couple of dealers listed back east on the Navimo website, one each in Rhode Island, Connecticut and Florida. URL: [url]http://www.plastimousa.com/Goiot.htm[/url]

- nick

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

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HowLin
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[QUOTE=bstreet;14587][B]I think the wear on the sail would be pretty bad[/B]. The Garhauer blocks I got have small shackles and even though they're heavier than recommended for this purpose the shackles wouldn't come near to fitting except in the SS rings.
.[/QUOTE]

Question for anyone who has had this arrangement for over a year:

Is there noticeable wear on the main sail from where these blocks are rubbing?

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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Nick, someone on another forum asked about Canadian sources for the Goiot stuff. I copied your ideas for him. Thanks, Stu

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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Channel Islander
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Roger. Haven't received them yet but I will definitely report back when I do.

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

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