Larry,

There is a good chance that our boat will be at the CSR yard when you're in Seattle for the show, so it might be hard to see. We have a set of stays that come from the junction of the backstay and the lower bridle that support the outboard ends of our Ocean Systems davits. I am under the impression that the Ocean System davits will support 350 lbs by themselves and, with the extra stays, I am sure that there would be ample holding power.

We currently have an AquaPro 10'er with a Honda 2 on it. There has been zero problems when encountering heavy seas. Down the dock from us at Elliott Bay marina is a Hanse 37 with davits and a RIB that fits your description of the Admiral's wishes. I am not sure of the brand but they have had the set-up for a few years and it seems to work for them, so it is possible.

Regards,

Wow Larry, that is a lot of weight. Our RIB is 9' and we have a 9.9 4 stroke, totals about 215 lbs and I would not want more than that out there, I won't even leave the fuel tank in the dinghy when I hoist it. I don't like pulling it up with the engine on it, I rarely do that and than only if for a short, smooth hop. We have a 3 part block on the engine side and a 2 part block on the bow and it is a bear to pull up the stern with the engine on it, that side should be a 4 part.

Our davits are rated at 350 lbs and we have a 220 watt solar panel on it, but the panel only weighs 42 lbs, so in total we have about 250 lbs on the davits if I pull up the dinghy and motor together. I think that's too much when sailing, it may be OK puttering around a back bay or something, but I would not go out on the big lake with the motor on the dinghy on the davits. They are 1 1/4" tubing, well engineered with lots of cross braces and double cross braces between the davits.

We installed braces from the stern rail to the transom platform as well. The whole stern rail structure will flex as a unit if you shake the dinghy with the engine on it. Not so with the engine off. I think we are exceeding what the stern rails can carry without starting to flex when the engine is on the RIB. It is not much motion, but by the time it gets out to the end of the davits it is significant.

We kissed our waterline goodbye at the stern (I raised it an inch last year, should have gone 2 inches), that's a lot of weight cantilevered out over the stern and I'm now on a mission to get weight out of the stern lockers. I don't have any pictures with this dinghy on it, just with our old small dinghy. I believe we are at the max this boat can carry with what we have now. This might turn into a very expensive upgrade, involving a 42 foot Catalina?:D

Larry, as you know I added Garhauer davits (heavy duty 1.25 inch dia tubes) to our MK II boat a few years ago. Now that we have a 9+ ft RIB with a 9.9 four-stroke engine, the total weight is close to 250 lbs.

I choose to carry the RIB and engine together on the davits in protected waters and settled weather. Even though the engine is heavy, I have a separate engine hoist and plan to stow the engine on the rail in anything other than benign conditions.

I am planning to add more bracing for peace of mind, because the dynamic loads created when bouncing in a seaway get pretty high.

It is just my gut feeling, but I would not feel comfortable at all having a dinghy/engine with the weight you are talking about on my davits. With enough money, I am sure a davit system could be engineered to do what you want to do and have plenty of safety margin.

This discussion got me thinking about how much weight is actually being transferred due to the lever arm effect. I am certainly no engineer but I found some calculators on the web that do this calculation. It seems that 250 lbs on a 4 foot lever arm translates to 375 lbs of force on the pivot point, which is the top rail of the stern rail system. That also ignores the weight of the davits themselves, which is probably in the 50-60 lb area.

Our davits were custom built and there is no flex visible in them, the problem is the stern rail. The davits are bolted solidly to the transom at the bottom and attach at the top through clamps to the rail at the first vertical support post outboard from the transom opening of the stern rail. The braces to the platform go down from the vertical rail posts on either side of the walk-through. If those braces were closer to the point where the davits attach to the rail it might be better, but then they would probably need to run on an angle towards the center which could cause them to flex under load.

I didn't do a lot of looking to see how it could be addressed, I just saw how much motion we were getting out at the end of the davits where the dinghy weight is carried and it was pretty unsettling. We already had the engine hoist and rail mount in place, and it is pretty easy to lift and lower the motor, so that's what we do.

I also wouldn't want to downplay the disappearing waterline, there's no doubt that the boat did not feel as sprightly this past year versus the prior year, especially in light air, and our fuel economy is noticeably worse. This is partly due to the change in bottom paints, VC17 is much smoother than the soft ablatives, but no doubt more hull in the water is causing more drag as well.

Not what I had hoped for when we upgraded our dink, definitely proved that bigger is not always better.

I had a set of davits made up by Stainless Outfitters in Barrie, Ontario. They are 1.25" dia tube. The base bolts on the transom and special clamps attach to the top stern rail. If you look at the attached picture you can see that I also added two 3/16" 1 X 19 stainless cables from the outboard end of the davit up to the mast head. This helps carry some of the dinghy load. There doesn't appear to be any negative effect on mast rake with the dinghy attached.

Larry please don't even consider it unless motoring in glass calm. Davits should NOT be used in rough weather even with a light dinghy. We have had them on three boats now and I have seen a number of failures due to the dink being left on in rough weather. The forces exerted on the davit system in rough weather, even with a 100 pound dink, are tremendous. If you can't stow the dink on the bow, lashed down, it's simply to big for the boat.

Our davits are basically used as a dinghy garage for when we are on the mooring. It keeps the growth down. We rarely sail with the dinghy in the davits, ours weighs about 100 pounds, and prefer to tow. If it gets nasty the dink is upside down lashed on the fore deck..

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;11490]Well, we went to the Portland Boat Show and the Admiral came home with the hots for a new dinghy...$10k or thereabouts(!), a rib with a 20 horse O/B and its own control pod, side-by-side seating, electrical system, nav lights, and who knows what else. Me? I'm busy burying my checkbook. But the Admiral does have a birthday coming up, and our 9-year old inflatable with a 2 1/2 hp Yamaha is way beyond its predicted life.[/QUOTE]

OK, Larry, do NOT show this post to your wife.

But, heck, I think the basic questions is this: What would you use that boat for? Where ya gonna go with that rig?

So many folks have reported wonderful experiences with small dinghies and 2 hp motors to even 11 foot or 15 foot ones with hp motors up to 15! :eek:

Perhaps it would help to know what your intentions are.

Oh, no, I just looked at your OP and it's the Admiral's request.

Seems our job is to help you to dissuade her.

Dratz........:eek:

20 hp??? That's almost as much as I have in my M25 that is the engine in my C34 and many C36s. 20 HP on a dinghy? NUTZZZZ.:rolleyes:

Can't ya just ROW to shore?:)

OTOH, have you considered a mid-point solution? We have a Zodiac C310 air floor that goes 20 knots with a 9.9 hp outboard.

What Stu said :)
Maybe you could ride in the dinghy and tow the Catalina?
Seriously, it's catch 22 - sometimes it would be nice to have the HP to plane. (We've been overtaken by a guy in a kayak :o ) We occasionally have to hitch a ride with other cruisers if the conditions dictate.
We ourselves forewent this pleasure as the cost in effort to lift the dinghy onto the boat, or [I]even from the high tide mark down to the water[/I] is too much for us. My wife often takes the dinghy by herself, and she's not built to drag even our light RIB very far. If you never pull up on sandy beaches this might not apply...
If it's hard to lift with davits the temptation might be to just tow it everywhere.
We quite often go for a row as a cheap workout... this would not happen with a heavy dinghy. It would be heavier to row WHEN the motor cuts out too.
Also it's dearer to buy and insure etc.

But where you sail it could be vastly different... Good luck :)

Larry,

I vividly remember coming in to anchor at one of the coves on Santa Cruz I. some years ago, to find a very spiffy yacht anchored and a pair of very spiffy couples in a VERY spiffy RIB similar to the one you described. Their very spiffy 4-stroke outboard had quit for some reason and they were trying to row back to the boat. There was a moderate sideshore/onshore breeze and the weight and windage of the dink was preventing them from advancing at all.

We got to shore in the usual way (we swam with dry bags), hiked around for a while, then returned to the shore. The men had put the dames ashore and were back at it ... at least an hour of rowing and getting nowhere. In the end a caretaker from the Nature Conservancy (which owns that part of the island) showed up, fetched an aluminum skiff, launched it from a flatbed truck with a crane and helped them out. ('Nother whole story as to how the skiff was emblazoned with "Santa Cruz Island Sailing Club," on a Nature Preserve within a National Park . . . :rolleyes:)

Anyways, even spiffy new dinks with 4-stroke engines conk out, and rowing a 350-pounder into even 10 kts and 3-foot chop is nigh-on impossible.

Hope this helps!

- nick

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;11490]...the dink is heavy, I want to carry it on the davits [B][I][U][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="6"]when I go on the open ocean[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/I][/B]. Any recommendations, warnings, or other counsel you can offer? [/QUOTE]

I'm quite sure that not only conventional wisdom but prudent seamanship would caution against doing so. I recall your great [I]Crossing the Columbia Bar[/I] story and wouldn't want anything hanging off the back in those conditions. As I also recall, to get to the ocean you have to go out through the Bar, and then to comer back in you have to do it all over again. Two trips across the Bar to get to the ocean with the dink on the davits? I'm just not sure what you are going to use the dink "out there" for...

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;11531]This is the Admiral writing on Larry's forum page. Thanks for the 'advice', party poopers. :) Ok, maybe it wasn't the brightest idea. Anyway I want him to look at other dink choices at the Seattle boat show next week. And maybe we'll need to upgrade from our present 2 1/2 horse motor. Of course, if my lottery tickets ever hit, we'll wrap a 40 ft Nordhavn around that new dink.

Thank you, all, for keeping Larry occupied, off the street, and out of trouble. I know I can count on the C36IA for that.

Daniela[/QUOTE]

I detect a lack of time at boat shows and boat dealerships!

When you're in Seattle, come out to Elliott Bay marina and check out the Nordhavn 56 MS at the head of J Dock. Every time I see the boat, I think that I would not have to take current and wind forecasts into account when crossing the straits. I doubt that the 56 even notices wave condition until even the most intrepid sailors would not venture out!

Sorry, Daniela & Larry... how about this - my lovely wife reckon its pretty sexy when I row her about! :D To facilitate this I bought a set of nice wooden oars to replace the flimsy alu ones that came with the dinghy which are kept as spares. The wooden oars hold up much better, seem a lot more efficient. I keep fitter.

However when Margie rows ME, I try to slide down out of sight as it seems very ungentlemanly to let her 5'2" do the work! :o Often we go for a nice row around a beautiful anchorage with an oar each...

Of course we have the piddly 3Hp Yamaha (a 4Hp hardly makes any improvement on speed...) for most trips. Would like 8hp, ideally both. ;)

True, Larry. Both he who buys a ticket [I]and he who doesn't[/I] have about the same mathematical chance of winning big!

Just to complete the thread drift:

I actually know a guy who won $13m on the lottery. He never used to play and decided to buy one ticket. Got one digit wrong in a family member's birthday, and that made it the winning ticket!!!

Good luck Daniela!

We used to have a WM 8'-4" dinghy with what I called our egg beater 1 1/2 HP single gear Johnson engine. Loved that dinghy. Used to take half a day to get to the store for ice and back to the boat, but the ride was nice. Now have an air floor 310 with a 9.9 hp engine and can really zip around. But many of the areas we go to have speed limits. It's the difference between riding a bike and seeing what's around you to driving in a car. Both work great for different reasons.

Daniela & Larry:

You might consider an AB Inflatable. Their Ventus 10VL RIB weighs in at 123 pounds and can take up to a 25 Hp motor - 15 Hp recommended. The Ventus 9VL RIB weighs in at 109 pounds and can take up to a 15 Hp motor - 9.9 Hp recommended. These are what I am giving serious consideration to. It looks like Ballard Inflatables in Seattle is a distributor. Food for thought and good luck at the Boat Show.

Hi, Larry. In your neck of the woods, you might be able to get away with a non-Hypalon dink, and if that's what you get, I hope you get all the service you need from it.

I can tell you from my own experience and that of dozens of others, however, that UV rays will kill a PVC dink fairly fast. I understand that repairs to the seams when they finally let go are not economically feasible. If they start to have a problem, they are trash.

Wishing you lots of good service and fun with it, Larry.

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;11832]Interestingly I got a very competitive quote from Pacific Boatland in Vancouver, WA, for an equivalent Yamaha. But when I got there the salesman on duty told me that [B][COLOR="Red"]"the quote was for a long shaft, and the short shaft is going to cost you about $500 more." [/COLOR][/B]It seemed to me that I was about to get ripped off, so I got outta there FAST!

The difference between Customer Service at Pacific Boatland and Stevens Marine is night vs day.[/QUOTE]

Seems like they just bought $500 of bad advertising! As well as not making the sale.

Speaking of LFS, did you buy any of the line they had for sale? My 36 now sports a new, adjustable backstay that features 5/16th Amsteel.

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;11531]This is the Admiral writing on Larry's forum page. Thanks for the 'advice', party poopers. :) Ok, maybe it wasn't the brightest idea. Anyway I want him to look at other dink choices at the Seattle boat show next week. And maybe we'll need to upgrade from our present 2 1/2 horse motor. Of course, if my lottery tickets ever hit, we'll wrap a 40 ft Nordhavn around that new dink.

Thank you, all, for keeping Larry occupied, off the street, and out of trouble. I know I can count on the C36IA for that.

Daniela[/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm too late now, but I'm just reading this thread and my advice: Turn the new dink back in, buy the fancy one and sell the sailboat! Problem solved. Tell Daniela I'm on her side. :cool:

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;12300]... and Daniela loved the electric start.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a great compromise :)

Larry, before we had davits, and on our old 28, we used to run ropes from the bases of the vertical braces on the stern rails under the dinghy and use them to pull it up vertical across the stern by tying them off to the top of the stern rail. We could raise the dinghy up well clear of the level of the walk thru transom at the stern, usually we carried it about a foot above the floor of the walk through. It effectively worked the same as the weaver davits though certainly not as handy.

However, any heel beyond about 15 degrees and the stern tube of the dinghy, which was 8'6" long, would start to drag in the water really badly, to the point where damage was likely to occur. In any kind of waves or swell it was scary. This reduced sailing ability quite a bit. That happened with both the 28 and the 36. With our new 9'6" RIB, for sure it would drag with less heel. That might be a problem with the Weaver snap davits as well since I doubt they will raise the lower tube higher than we could carry it with ropes. We have friends with a 37' Jeanneau and they had the Weaver snap davits with a 7'7" dinghy and it was touch and go for dragging while heeled. You might want to try it with ropes first and see what happens.

Different topic: Do you have other photos of your stern platform? I've been thinking about adding one, another C-36 owner has a brochure from someone who makes them to fit. Those fold up so don't add to slip length.

Thanks

Dan