AIS-B Getting More Affordable

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LCBrandt's picture
LCBrandt
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AIS-B Getting More Affordable

I remember purchasing a dual channel AIS receiver from Milltech a couplke years ago for about $350 or so...and today, in a West Marine flyer I see the Raymarine AIS-B advertised for $499.99. Half a boat buck is almost affordable, don't you think?

Now if I could just gather the courage to attempt the FCC radio license application to get an MMSI number...

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

hilbre
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$160 for the boat and $60 for each user. It is quite simple and done online. I did it a two months ago and it is quite efficient. The documents took about three weeks to arrive. By the way, ditto for the coastguard tag if you are going out of the country for a while.
John Meyer
Hilbre 2135 - San Pedro

John Meyer
Hilbre
C36 MKll, Hull 2135

Cabrillo Marina, San Pedro, CA

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Steve Frost
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One of the cheapest ways to go may be a new VHS Com radio. Standard Horizons new GX2100 icorporates a VHF, Hailer, DSC and AIS reciever and display all in one package for $299 ast West Marine. The AIS display is a bit small but, has all the alarms and features of other units and can be tied to your plotter to display AIS info there. I heard they have another product coming shortly that has a blender and water maker incorporated as well.

Pretty sweet package considering you get a new com with DSC ability for less than what you would pay for an AIS unit by itself, the install is less complecated and cheaper as well as you do not need a dedicated antena or spliter for the AIS unit.

Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas

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LCBrandt
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John, "ditto the coastguard tag." Not sure what you are referring to. Are you referring to the US Customs sticker? Online renewal is easy on that one. Also, the Washington Parks sticker that prepays for the great Washington State mooring buoy system at state parks is easily available online.

Steve, I will agree that the Standard Horizon VHF - with an AIS Receiver incorporated - makes a great value. But I have an excellent SH VHF, and upgrading to the new one would mean running a new set of wiring to the helm's remote mic because of the digital interface (mine is analog). But the SH unit you describe has only an AIS *receiver*. With AIS-B my boat would be transmitting as well as receiving.

Guess I need to make "the safety pitch" to the Admiral.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

hilbre
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Larry, I did mean the Customs sticker. Sometimes things work well in the Government. I have also been considering AIS especially with the prices dropping however if everyone jumps in, our plotters are going to get real busy displaying and tracking everyone who is broadcasting AIS signals.
John Meyer
Hilbre 2135 - San Pedro, CA

John Meyer
Hilbre
C36 MKll, Hull 2135

Cabrillo Marina, San Pedro, CA

BudStreet
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We have the GX2100 tied to our 300i Chartplotter, last week we were in an area were there was some shipping and finally got to see some targets. Pretty neat stuff, alarms are annoying though.

There's a lot of people who think that if yachts start broadcasting AIS it will ruin the whole deal. I tend to agree, especially because of the alarms. I really would like to see this kept to big guys.

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plaineolde
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[QUOTE=bstreet;5847]
There's a lot of people who think that if yachts start broadcasting AIS it will ruin the whole deal. I tend to agree, especially because of the alarms. I really would like to see this kept to big guys.[/QUOTE]

what, like VHF???? :mad: I could just see it on a weekend on the northern Chesapeake. I'd get alarms in my slip.

Not much need for AIS on the Bay, though I guess it would be nice on those rare occasions where it gets foggy. I'd sure like to have it when I (eventually) venture offshore though. It's good to see that the cost of a valuable safety technology is getting inexpensive enough for the average person to afford.

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

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stu jackson c34
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I agree, Bud & Gary, that it should be kept to the big guys, for a few reasons. We've been recreational boaters for over 30 years, and our choice to sail is based on weather conditions. That said, yes, visibility can turn instantly. But we've (the "greater we") have managed for the past many years to deal with that, either with or without even radar, to say nothing about AIS. I can understand folks wanting to broadcast on AIS for their safety, but fear that lowering prices will temp two things: (1) "everybody" buying & using one to clog up the airwaves and the display; (2) entice folks to go out in conditions they would normally avoid because they have "this new advanced instrument." That's scary. Perhaps if everybody had one, they'd be able or enticed to turn it off on fine summer days and keep the big guys clear on their screens. Somehow, unfortunately, I doubt it'll happen.

There are, however, very important caveats to this approach, and the most important one I can think of is where you sail. They call SF the Fog Capital of the world, but in an earlier discussion somewhere on one of the boards I visit, perhaps even here for a skipper in the South Bay, I noted that our fog is usually only as low as 1500 feet making sailing a breeze. It's where the fog comes down on deck, like a few days a year here, or in other parts of the country or the world where it is very prevalent, where having AIS would be a tremendous safety issue.

If there was some way to have folks turn the outgoing signal off when it is not required, that'd make a lot of sense. Will it happen?

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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deising
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How many boaters think to set the VHF to low power when hailing vessels close by? I wouldn't hold my breath that skippers will voluntarily take action to reduce clutter, AIS or otherwise; that's just human nature.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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stu jackson c34
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[QUOTE=deising;5854]...that's just human nature.[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree.

Someone wrote me this recently:

[I]I had a man working for me years ago and I discovered that he couldn't read. We talked about that a lot and I hooked him up with a reading teacher. He did repairs for her and she taught him to read. I told him that not being able to read was just ignorance and that could be cured but that refusing to learn was stupid and stupid goes clear to the bone.. This was after he had learned. [/I]

He summarized: [I]stupid is a condition; ignorance is a choice.
[/I]

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

hilbre
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Having said that lots of AIS could clutter up a GPS, I have also considered buying an AIS unit mainly for its receive funtion. In the LA basin, even with Radar, it would be nice to know which BIG Boy is comming into your comfort zone. It would be useful for night sailing as well as fog. The ability to transmit when well off-shore in less used areas would also be an advantage. Like all new things, there may eventually be some understood but undocumented etiquette for when to transmit vs receive. Too much use of class B may cause the BIG boys to filter Class B out altogether which kind of defeats some of the purpose of AIS in the first place.
John Meyer
Hilbre 2135, San Pedro, CA

John Meyer
Hilbre
C36 MKll, Hull 2135

Cabrillo Marina, San Pedro, CA

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LCBrandt
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Don't wanna hear the alarms, don't set 'em.

As for too many blips on the chartplotter, select a shorter range on the display. You're not concerned with those targets that are too far away to see, only those within a distance of concern. Each blip on the screen is only a blip unless you click on a specific blip, and only then will the AIS read out all the particulars on that blip.

Concerns about saturation with AIS-B, and with large ships being able to deselect AIS-B targets, are urban myth. Lots of discussion on Panbo on this. These have been debunked.

What's not a myth is that if you get a single-channel (instead of the dual-channel) AIS Receiver that oncoming freighter can be well within collision risk concern before you get them on your AIS display. If you go AIS Receiver Only, then make sure you go dual-channel.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

BudStreet
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The alarm is the whole point though Larry. The alarm itself doesn't bother me it's the way our particular equipment delivers it that is the problem. We are learning how to fine tune that but it really is the heart of the whole thing.

It's clear from comments here most people are concerned about seeing BIG ships way out, not yachts. Certainly, that's why I got AIS.

I don't know who says saturation won't be a problem but I can't imagine how they conclude that. We are in a tiny little marina with 50 boats, there's maybe 200 more in 2 other marinas nearby. If all those boats were sending AIS the thing would be totally useless. I can't imagine what it would be like in an area with thousands of yachts, like Toronto or Southern Georgian Bay. The screen would be just a mass of targets regardless of resolution. I would just turn it off. AIS is a great idea for detecting shipping, but let's leave it at that.

Case in point. Last week in the Thousand Islands we could see shipping coming towards the American Narrows well in advance. You really want to know there's a big one coming through there before you enter it. Some do a Securite call before they enter, lots don't. But yachts, who cares? Lots of room for yachts. Yachts don't need to send AIS, IMHO.

This thing is a good idea, let's not kill it.

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LCBrandt
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In my mind it isn't about the alarms at all.

My responsibility as skipper (per the Navigation Rules) is to "maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions." Doesn't that mean being aware of what collision threats are out there long before an alarm sounds? Would I ever use an alarm on an AIS receiver??? Probably not.

As for yachts not needing to transmit AIS, I can envision a host of situations in my nearby waters where AIS-B on my boat would be very helpful. In the fog, which only a couple weeks ago crossing the Strait of Juan de Fuca gave me less than 1/4 mile vis. At night, traveling Puget Sound, with constant ferry traffic and numerous smaller vessels around. At night or in the fog transiting the Strait of Juan de Fuca, traffic lanes everywhere, ships inbound/outbound, tugs and barges confined to the narrow area south of the inbound traffic lane. At night or in the fog on the Columbia River, a narrow waterway with heavy shipping and (hopefully the Indians use AIS Receive) poorly- or un-marked gillnets strung clear across the river.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

BudStreet
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[quote=LCBrandt;5871]Doesn't that mean being aware of what collision threats are out there long before an alarm sounds? [/quote]

Yes and that's why AIS is so good because we are able to see targets 30 miles or more away. The problem is we are getting false alarms. We are picking up targets 15 to 20 miles away and the AIS unit is occasionally showing them within alarm range (<.5Nm) when they're not. No idea yet why this is happening. It's new stuff and there's always teething problems with new technology.

We're going to agree to disagree on this one I guess. I think yachts sending AIS is a bad idea. A collision with a BIG ship is likely going to be unsurvivable, not so with a yacht. No collision is a good one, but what is it pilots say about landings you walk away from?

Anything that waters down the ability to see the big threats is a bad thing and a whole pile of yachts broadcasting AIS will do exactly that. IMHO.

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LCBrandt
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Agreed. To disagree, that is :)

My electronic tech's brain was trained (compliments of the US taxpayer) back in the vacuum tube era. Remember them? [PS, there is one remaining vacuum tube on my boat...the radar's maggie.]

For the record, though, it's been shown that the AIS protocol is robust enough that the watering down of Class A targets by Class B users won't happen. Or vice versa, for that matter. (By "watering down," we're describing the simultaneous transmission of so many units that what AIS receivers hear is mixed up gobbeldygoop.) Class B units transmit their millisecond burp every half-minute. There's ample silent time between AIS transmissions to accomodate thousands of users within any VHF range circle.

The other half of the picture (pun) is the display issue. AIS displays a received target as a small icon and a "noodle." If a boater has selected too great a range on his display, sure there will be what appears as a lot of clutter. But zoom in to your area of interest and the screen simplifies.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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