Its time to do a bottom job on my 88' Catalina 36. I'm wondering if any one has experience with Total Boat products from Jamestown Distributors? It gets good reviews from what I can see but I'm looking for anecdotal evidence. Also for those in Southern Ca, I'm open to suggestions on paint that you have had good experiences with. I'm in Oxnard, CA. I'm new to this as I bought the boat end of Feb, and this will be my first foray into this type of job.
Also looking at the way some of my bottom paint is flaking etc, I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and strip the whole bottom down and start from scratch? I've seen folks heartily mention Soda Blasting, however none of the yards in my area do this and they do not allow for outside contractors to be brought in. One yard rents festool vacum sanders while another yard wants to charge for 35 hours at $100 and hour to grind it with a flap disc. I purchased the boat end of February and it looks to me that there's probably 32 years of layered paint on the bottom.
Anti fouling or hard paint? Barrier coat? Types?
Epoxy for the lead keel? Just west sytem epoxy painted on or is there a special epoxy primer that is preferred?
Any advice on how to tackle this job for a noob would be much appreciated. Thank you.
David Lane
S/V Grace
88' Catalina 36'
Oxnard, Ca
David;
If your bottom does have 32 years of paint on her bottom and the current bottom paint is flaking off, then there is a very good chance that the barrier coat underneath the bottom paint needs to be replaced. This of course will of course require the complete striping of the bottom down to the gel coat. Then, the application of three coats of 'barrier coat paint' and at least two of what ever bottom paint you use. (Here in Florida many use Micron CSC)
The most expedient way to remove all the coatings is to have the bottom 'soda blasted' by a team who does this regularly. It takes about a day. It takes skill to operate the blaster so do not have some amateur do it. You can certainly have it hand sanded with a Festool vacuum sander and it will take about a week. Yards get very concerned as to what you do with the toxic dust. Here in Florida the entire job is worth about $3500.00. - $4,000.00 including paint.
$1600 was the best price I could find (last year here in Florida) for blasting the bottom with glass beads and clean up (Yes, they charge you a fee for cleaning up their mess). The barrier coat can then be applied and will take less than two days to apply. It dries quickly. Paint the bottom just before the boat goes in the water. Best of luck with your project.....Bill
Bill Dolan 1990 Catalina C-36 MKI - Hull #1041 'Williwaw'
Std. Rig, Walk Through, Wing Keel
M35, Oberdorfer Conversion,
Home Waters; Charlotte Harbor & The Gulf Islands of Florida
'You are never out of work if you own a boat'
David;
I was just re-reading your post. I just paint the keel area with what ever bottom paint I'm using. Hard coat or ablative paint. Ask the guys in the marina what seems to work best for them. And you just may have to sail the boat to a yard that allows soda blasting or hand sands it. I dont think I'd pay a guy $100.00 an hour to sand it. Around here they usually get a day laborer for $150.00 a day and it takes him about a week to get the sanding job done. It will take about three gallons of bottom paint. And I have no experience with the Jamestown product you mentioned...... Bill
Bill Dolan 1990 Catalina C-36 MKI - Hull #1041 'Williwaw'
Std. Rig, Walk Through, Wing Keel
M35, Oberdorfer Conversion,
Home Waters; Charlotte Harbor & The Gulf Islands of Florida
'You are never out of work if you own a boat'
Thanks Bill. We have a few yards here in Ventura/ Oxnard area that allow you to work on your own boats, but they do not allow you to bring in any outside contractors to help. The $100/ hr guy said he would use a grinder with a flap disc and suggested it would take him 35 hours to get all the old paint off. I contacted a yard in Ensenada Mexico where I spent some time on a friends boat a few years ago while he had his bottom done prior to heading farther south. They quoted me $2500 covering labor and materials, haul out and launch. I have a few more questions for him, but at this point I may be taking a little cruise in a month or so. Do you have any suggestions of questions that would be pertinent to ask them? Thank you for your help.
David Lane
S/V Grace
88' Catalina 36'
Oxnard, Ca
It really depends on a lot of things -- including how bad the condition is, and your priorities.
Our boat is 3 years older than yours. When we bought it 10 years ago, the survey recommended a complete bottom stripping. However, while there were some spots that had flaked, it was not extensive; I sanded them down, faired them out, and repainted. 10 years later, we still haven't stripped it, and the occasional flaking has not gotten any worse. We're not racers, and we've found that we can stretch our paint job through 3 seasons here (we sail in NY and New England) before the underside gets sufficiently ugly to call for hauling out for the winter to redo it; yes, by the third season I do need to occasionally free dive to do a little cleaning, but again, acceptable conditions for our sailing needs.
While its not easy to find yards around our area that will let you do your own work below the waterline, we have found them. I use an orbital disk-sander with a vacuum attachment and take off the most recent paint layer and the two layers below it (hint: if you make sure to always use a different color paint for each painting job, you get an easy visual clue as to how far to sand), the job takes no more than the better part of a day. At this rate in maybe another 30 years we'll get down to the barrier coat! We then apply 2 coats of ablative paint, plus a 3d coat just below the waterline and on the leading edges of the keel and rudder. Takes less than 2 gallons. We've had good results with West PCA Gold, which is a rebranded Petit paint, FWIW, but obviously different paints work better in other waters, climates, and conditions (Practical Sailor does good surveys on this, frequently updated).
Again, it all really depends on your priorities. Since you are a new owner, let me try to break it to you gently (if you haven't realized this already!): Our older (and not so old) boats will inevitably consume LOTS of time and money for all kinds of maintenance and repairs, as well as upgrades, improvements, and other tweaks (neccesary or not). Unless you have unlimited amounts of both, its all a question of where on your "to do" list a total bottom strip and barrier coat ultimately reside. Obviously, for us, while it IS on the list, it hasn't been very high up there -- which is not to say we haven't invested quite a lot over the decade in our boat to maintain and improve it. As they say, your boat, your choice.
If you do decide that the condition is such that a bottom strip is warranted at this point, as Bill warns make sure anyone who is doing work on the hull knows what they are doing. An improper blasting job can do a great deal of damage to a hull -- we're talking about fiberglass here, not steel -- and compromise its impermeability. Indeed, Don Casey, in his wonderful treatise "This Old Boat," not only urges not stripping unless the paint layers are truly failing, but has this to say: "Never, ever let a boatyard staff convince you to sandblast, sodablast, or shotblast with any medium to remove paint from your hull -- unless the hull is steel." And even a couple of moments of inattention to a power sander can dig into the hull (don't ask me how I know). Casey recommends chemical stripping, but again cautions "there is simply no nastier boat job than stipping the bottom, so avoid it if you can." Since he is reputedly far more knowledgeable than I am regarding old boats, I've deferred to his advice! Also, make sure you wear good personal protection gear (something we do a lot these days anyway!); I wear a full Tyvek suit, with a hood, a good respirator with NIOSH filters, goggles, and ear covers; bottom paint dust is nasty for you and the environment (which is why it is so effective).
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
I just poured over pictures of the bottom of my boat from the February survey. It may not be as bad as I was remembering. I think I can settle down a bit in my perfectionist attitude and all will be fine. Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.
David Lane
S/V Grace
88' Catalina 36'
Oxnard, Ca
David;
Matt said it perfectly. I my case the bottom paint was peeling off in quite a few places. Just breaking off in 4X6 inch chunks. It was obvious that there was more than three coats on the bottom. While it's true that no boat ever sank due to blisters or peeling bottom paint you can delay stripping the bottom so long as paint stays on. So long as your bottom does not look like the one below, you'll be ok. If you think can can spot sand and paint then that would save you a few bucks this season. But the idea of heading to Mexico where the labor rate is a little less expensive might be a good one. Just find out how they are going to strip off the current paint and designate what paint you want applied as a final coat. Ask around the yard to fellow sailors as to what works or worked for them cause everyone has been where you are now. LOL
Bill Dolan 1990 Catalina C-36 MKI - Hull #1041 'Williwaw'
Std. Rig, Walk Through, Wing Keel
M35, Oberdorfer Conversion,
Home Waters; Charlotte Harbor & The Gulf Islands of Florida
'You are never out of work if you own a boat'
^^^Woah! Ya nothing like that, not even close, hahahaha. That guy should have harvested those sponges for a little side $$$. On second inspection of the photos from the haul out in Feb. when I had the survey done, it doesn't look all that bad so I think I may be in luck after all. Probably much simpler than my mind is creating it. Thanks again.
David Lane
S/V Grace
88' Catalina 36'
Oxnard, Ca