Cruised across the lake for the weekend and when we went to leave the transiet harbor after a few days it felt like when I put the engine in reverse it hesitated for several seconds before engaging. After backing the engine went into foward seemingly normally and within 20 minutes we had sail up and sailed the whole way back. My wife was driving into the dock and reversed to slow the boat with no issue. We went back out that night and it seemed to shift straight into reverse as I left the slip and had no issue. Tonight, wife was back at the helm leaving the slip and I was handling the bow line a a good 30 feet away, but it seemed to me that once again it hesistated before engaging reverse. She claims she didn't think this was the case, but admitally doesn't really notice things like that. She was talking to someone and concentrating on getting out of the slip. Having believed I noticed this slipage twice I drove back to the dock. No hesitation going in and out of forward powering to the dock and just for good measure gave it some reverse when docking with no issue. We shut the engine off for probably 20 minutes and then I had her start while I was in the aft cabin observing and shift in and out reverse > neutral > forward about 5 times and every time the prop began spinning immediatley as expected.
A little background. We purchased the boat last year with about 1000 hours on the engine. The day we left the dock the first time with the boat it backed out and then I got no propulsion in forward. It was blowing like hell and we actually blew about three slips down the fairway before I was able to limp it into another slip. I went below and observed the the prop spinning pretty quick in neutral and then slowing dramatically when put into either gear. After showing this to the yard guys who cast us off (and were convinced I just didn't know how to drive the boat), they agreed it obvisouly had an issue. We had an escrow hold back on the purchase since we purchased in winter. Due to this, I never saw any bills and wasn't given any direct updates, just third hand as they worked with the PO and the broker who fed info to me. As I understand it they pulled the transmission easily and replaced the damper (clutch plate) which had several broken springs. The gear worked fine all of last year and this year - maybe a 130 hours since this work was done.
Obviously I need to confirm what I'm sensing is happening, but am hoping I'm not looking at a major issue. If it is in fact hesitating in reverse when the transmission is stone cold (it only seems to do this after first starting), and not having an issue in forward what are my possible causes? We only have two months left in the sailing season here, is that an issue that I can montior for two more months of normal use and have it looked at it again when I haul out? How difficult is changing the trans fluid? I haven't pulled the dipstick yet to check the level, but haven't seen any sign of leakage and assume this had to have been replaced when they did the clutch plate... Obviously I'll update more after observing this again, but looking for any advice now.
Erik
Chicago, IL
C-36 MK II #2106
Forgot my info:
Erik Hillenmeyer
2002 Catalina 36 MKII Tall Rig
Hull 2106
Chicago
Erik
Chicago, IL
C-36 MK II #2106
I’m on my fifth season with my boat (hull 2122) and never had any issues with reverse. What I do get when backing out of my slip if I don’t bring the engine down to idle before shifting into forward it will not engage forward gear. I will normally just shift back into neutral and make sure the engine is at idle and try again. Never any issues going in and out of forward if boat is going forward.
Bob Wilson
S/V Morning Breeze
2003 Catalina 36, Hull 2122
York River Yacht Club
Williamsburg, VA
Eric-
It sounds like the yard replaced the damper plate, not the clutch plates.The damper plate is external to the transmission and located in the bell housing. If it had broken springs, it definately needed replacement. Unless the splines on the damperplate/engine output shaft are messed up (very, very unlikely), the damperplate would have no relation to slippage or engagement/disengagement of the prop shaft. The clutch plates are inside the transmission and these can wear out and create slippage in the prop shaft rotation. Another potential issue is the transmission shift lever adjustment (at the transmission). If the shift cable is adjusted incorrectly on the transmission shift lever arm, the clutches will not engage correctly which can lead to clutch failure.
I would suggest;
1) Look at the transmssion fluid-is it at the correct level? (Too much can be as damaging as too little). It should not be darker, or have a smell different than new fluid out of the bottle. Discoloration and smell indicate internal wear/heat. It is recomended that the fluid be changed at least once/season. This maintenance is typically overlooked. These small transmissions have to transfer a relatively large amount of power for their size and are demanding on the fluid.
2) Search this web site on transmission lever adjustments- I think there is a posting/bulletin from Catailina or HBW regarding adjusting the shift lever. Make sure it is adjusted properly so the clutches are totally disengaged in neutral and fully engaged in either reverse or forward.
3) If the above two points don't fix then problem, then it sounds like it's time for a rebuild.
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
Paul,
Sorry, I'm not familiar at all with transmissions. I called the yard and asked them to send me the final invoice that went to the PO and so now I can give some better detail as to what was done. It turns my assumption of what was done was not correct:
"Tech found transmission was not shifting internal,Remove transmission tear down.Tech found dent and springs were out of place.Reset spring installed new gaskets and seals.Reinstalled.Aligned,Adjusted packing,tested Shifting at dock working properly."
The following parts are on the invoice:
Gasket
ATF-Mercon/Dexron QT
Output Seal
Input Seal
This work was down over a year ago and seemed to solve any issues for all of last season and up until now. Does anyone with a better knowledge than me no what "dent and springs out of place" would refer to? Again, it seems this was only issue twice this week and it's fine once it's been running. If it needs a rebuild, does it need it imminently, or can it wait 2 more months until the end of the season? I guess I don't know how quickly these things fail, if it's clutch plates. Pulling the boat now for something like this would obviously end my season.
Erik
Erik
Chicago, IL
C-36 MK II #2106
Eric-
It's not clear to me what the mechanic did. I'm unfamiliar with the specific internal design of the Hurth 100. The word, "dent" might be the mechanic's shorthand for "detent". Ultimately, this relates to shift cable adjustment.
I'm assuming your throttle and shift functions are controled by a single lever at the pedestal. (Older Catalinas have two levers at the pedestal- one for throttle and the other for shifting the transmission). When this arm is in the neutral position, the engine will be at idle and the prop will not be spinning. If it is spinning- the shift cable needs adjustment. If you push the throttle/shift forward, or in reverse, you will feel a slight resistance intitially and then hear the transmission engage after you move out of the neutral detent position and enter into either a forward detent or reverse detent position. The resistance to moving the lever after engaging the transmission should immediately decrease after you pass through the forward or reverse detent position and remain constant over the full range forward or backward- at this point the lever is only adjusting the engine throttle cable. If the transmission shift cable is not adjusted correctly, it will not allow the transmission to fully engage either in the forward or reverse direction. This sounds like what you might be experiencing. Again, search this web site for the cable adjustment bulletin.
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
Thanks Paul. I have the information I believe you are referring too and will take a measurement tonight. May be a stupid question, but any technique for getting an accurate measurement here? As I said, I haven't tried yet, but I can't imagine being crammed in the aft cabin holding a tape measure over the transmission lever while I push it forward and eye-ball the movement is going to work very well.
Erik
Chicago, IL
C-36 MK II #2106
They are components that make up part of the shifter assembly. The springs and dent pins allow the transmission to lock in gear the same as the dent ball and spring hold the socket onto the ratchet.
Bob Wilson
S/V Morning Breeze
2003 Catalina 36, Hull 2122
York River Yacht Club
Williamsburg, VA
Eric-
I did remove my transmission once to replace the damper plate and played around with the shift arm, but never made any adjustments, because it appeared that everything was in good working order. My thought would be to make a life size template and hold it against the shift arm while somebody is at the helm moving the pedestal shift lever. By the way- removing the aft cabin matress is less of a pain if you remove the aft berth cushion from the innerhull first. In fact, I leave that at home.
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B