Full electronics suite replacement plan

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jmcelwee
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Full electronics suite replacement plan

Hi all,

Just hoping to elicit any thoughts/suggestions on my plan to upgrade the electronics suite on Chinook.  Currently, I've got all the original electronics on the boat (circa 2000), and am thinking it's about time to upgrade it all to last for the next 15 years.

At this point, I'm thinking of sticking with Raymarine, as I think I'd want to build the system around the autopilot, and like the looks of the EV-200 for an underdeck linear drive.  If any one has any sage advice or experience with these components (below), I'd appreciate any input before I actually pull the trigger and make the investment.  So far, a full suite of gear from Raymarine seems to be the least expensive (as opposed to other companies/options), but let me know if you think I'm off-base on that.

Thanks all!

Here's what I'm looking at right now:

Raymarine full replacement: (Total: ~$8500, minus whatever I can get for old equipment...)
 

Autopilot: EV-200 (T70158) (~$3200 total)

EV-1 Sensor Core

p70 Autopilot Control Head

ACU-200 Actuator Control Unit

Type 1 Mechanical Linear Drive
 

MFDs:  e95: ~$2500

Radar:  RD418HD (18”, HD color digial radar) (~$1500)

Instruments:  i70 wind/depth/speed (~$1000)

 

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

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bcam
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Josh,

Good plan. We recently replaced the system that we installed in 2004 with a complete Garmin setup. The Raymarine was out of date and we wanted to add AIS.

We went with Garmin because we liked the interface better than Raymarine. We started with a 740 chartplotter at the helm, added HD radar, a Garmin 200 radio with bluetooth remote at the helm and a Garmin 600 AIS transponder and three repeaters that we mounted above the companionway so I can see the info while sailing the boat without having to go to centerline to see the 740 screen.
With installation, unstepping the mast and adding the masthead unit for wind and an electronic heading unit, the total cost was more like 16,000. I feel it was worth every penny.

The only thing that we did not replace was the Raymarine wheel pilot. It is only used when motoring in flat water and does the job just fine. The boat is currently in the shed getting the wet decks fixed and I asked for a quote on a Garmin autopilot. They were at approximately 8000 for the installation. We decided to stay with a system that works.

Good luck with your project.

Bruce

PS; Good luck selling the 14 year old electronics. I got 700 for the complete Raymarine system.

Bruce Campbell
Evergreen Dreams #1409

jmcelwee
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Thanks Bruce!

Boy, installation sure does make it add up quick!  I think I'll take the plunge and do the installing myself, try to save a few of those boat-bucks.  Plus, it gives me some fun winter projects while the boats on the hard. :)

Good to know that you can still get [something] for the old equipment, even if it's a few pennies on the dollar.  

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

knotdoneyet
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Same boat as you - literally!

I have put a lot of miles on my EV-200 that was installed in December 2013 - it's absolutely amazing.  There are great instructions on the site for installing.

Just replaced my C80 with an E127.

Westmarine had a great deal on the Raymarine E127 (less than defender) plus a $500 rebate from Raymarine.  It's just a little bit more expensive than the E95/7 and a whole lot more real estate.  The precut Navpod was on sale also.  I did the E127 as the DSM300 was also pretty old and acting up.  You will need the E66066 and E66074 cables to connect and extend your transducer cable to the pedestal.

Make sure you apply all of the software updates and the system should run great.

Next up is getting an estimate for adding an i70 wind system to the boat.  Radar can wait.
 

2000 C36 MKII 1825

jmcelwee
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Posts: 102

Hey, nice!

What's your hull number?  Maybe our boats are sisters...

Like the look of the e127, but the power draw looks like it's more than twice that of the e97, so I might stick with the smaller unit.  Glad to hear you like the EV-200!  It's really hard to find any useful info/reviews on different autopilots.  The raymarine is really the only one that's talked about much on the boards.  

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

knotdoneyet
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1825

2000 C36 MKII 1825

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clennox
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Josh
Our boat uses Raymarine
E97 MFD
P70 pilot head
I70
18 inch HD radar
EV-100 auto pilot
Standard horzion GX2200 for VHF and AIS overlays to the MFD. Uses NEMA 0183 out of radio to input on the E-97.
We added a shoot thru depth transducer for the sonar.
Kept the old depth, speed and temp transducers, linked to the I-70
Kept the old wind instruments on top of mast, linked to the I-70.
Adaptor to interface from old sea talk to sea talk NG. I can't think of the part number right now.
 I wish I would have gone with the EV 200. No complaints with EV-100. 200 is more robust.
System works well and easy install.
With the E-97 it has it's own Wi-Fi to a I phone or I pad so you can control or just watch other screens anywhere on the boat. My wife likes to look at the radar when she down below.

Chuck Lennox
97 MKii Ventura Ca
Island Girl Hull #1611

jmcelwee
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Hey Chuck,

Thanks for the info!  Glad to see the GX2200 works well for you, i got one of those last season to send AIS to iNavX, so good to know it will work along with the newer RayMarine MFD's with no major issues.

Out of curiosity, do you find you use the sonar much?  I was considering whether that would be worthwhile, but haven't come up with a good reason to get it.

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

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clennox
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Josh
Sonar is part of the E-97. Way cool. You can get a good visual of the bottom. Seems to be a great tool for anchoring. I'm sure it would be good for fishing. I have just the basic model. But it's fun to use. I forget how far it goes, I think I've seen 1700 ft.

Chuck Lennox
97 MKii Ventura Ca
Island Girl Hull #1611

down_shift
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I would be interested to see the installation of the Raymarine EV-200 system and Type 1 liner drive to the tiller arm to see how complicated the installation is.  Can the drive and associated components can fit within the tiller cover?  Does the drive require through hardware into the cockpit? Does the Edison pedestal need to be removed?  Etc...  Thanks for any information and pictures that can be shared.  Installing an auto pilot will also be my winter project.
http://www.starmarinedepot.com/raymarine-ev-200-sail-linear-drive-evolution-autopilot/pzz17656.html?gclid=CNLipobR48ECFVTl7AodYBkAfw

 

Russell Green
S/V "GoodwiII"  #759
1987 C36 MKI TR/WK M25XP
Moored: Deale, MD

jmcelwee
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Hi down_shift,

There's a very detailed installation from Larry in the Technical section: ​https://www.catalina36.org/members/technical/upgrades/installing-below-d...

This is the mechanical type-1 linear drive, so should apply perfectly if you're also thinking about the EV-200 package.

-Josh

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

down_shift
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Josh, thanks for the link.  Reading it now.

Russell Green
S/V "GoodwiII"  #759
1987 C36 MKI TR/WK M25XP
Moored: Deale, MD

jmcelwee
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Posts: 102

OK, I took the plunge, and decided this is the winter of my discontent (read: full electronics replacement).  I just put in the order for the Raymarine gear.  Got what I think is pretty good pricing from StarmarineDepot:

Raymarine e127 Multifunction Display w/Sonar Lighthouse Navigation Charts NOAA Vector $3,045.95
Raymarine EV-200 Sail Linear Drive Evolution Autopilot $2,792.95
Raymarine i70 Instrument Display $430.95
Raymarine RD418HD HD Digital Radar Dome w/10M Cable $1,353.95

SubTotal: $7,623.80
Shipping (Special Ground): $10.95
Grand Total: $7,634.75

I'll clearly still need some cabling and whatnot, and a new Navpod as well, but this should be most of the gear.  If folks are interested, I'll keep you updated on how things are going.  First major project will be the autopilot, which will clearly be the most challenging aspect of the install.  Always fun doing this over the winter in sub-arctic New England weather.  :P

-Josh

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

knotdoneyet
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Just did my first sea trial with my E127 and EV-200 Below Decks autopilot.  It worked perfectly.  For some reason, the old C80 never interfaced correctly with the GPS and could not steer to GPS waypoints.

My compass was always about 20 degrees off, now it's dead on - sort of interesting.

Note my old system had the radar on a pole on the stern and it worked great.  I am very concerned about routing cables down the mast and making it through the conduits - as the cables will slap.  Any comments on how to route the cables on a furling mast with the mast up?
 

2000 C36 MKII 1825

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clennox
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Josh
Sounds great!
I think you will like your new toys. I do have a question on how are you going to run the cable for the radar. On my boat the PO put in the Radar on the mast and did not run the cable in a conduit or secure it in any manner. The cable slaps at anchor. This drives me nuts. I"m not sure how to cure this issue. I hate to pull mast just for this, but I really don't like the noise.
 

Chuck Lennox
97 MKii Ventura Ca
Island Girl Hull #1611

jmcelwee
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Posts: 102

Hey Chuck,

Well, fingers crossed, I'm hoping in my boat that the cable is indeed running through the conduit (it was installed by Catalina), and I'll hopefully just be able to tie/tape the new cable to the old and pull it through.  I had my mast down last season, so don't fancy the idea of pulling it yet again in order to run cable if I can avoid it.  We'll see how realistic my thoughts on this are....

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

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LCBrandt
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I have two suggestions, no three suggestions:

1. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE RADAR ON A POLE MOUNT...Don't bother running radar cable up/down the mast. Having your radar on a pole is entirely satisfactory. Very little is gained by having the radar high on the mast.

2. Don't bother with integrating AP to GPS so that it tracks waypoints. A far superior way to navigate is using the heading mode to 'manually' steer the AP. Course waypoints are the one place where the navigator should always be in touch with the navigation task. So instead of delegating this important task to a dumb computer, push the plus 10 and minus 10, or the plus 1 and minus 1 buttons, to remain mentally engaged with the safety mission at hand. This method will also keep your boat from bouncing off a buoy someday; and those buoys can weigh much more than your C36.

3. Take a course in radar operation. This little device is surprisingly capable, and surprisingly complex. I jst taught a course in Portland, Oregon, last weekend and - as always - the students were amazed at how much there is to know.

[Added a clarification to my point #1. A mast mount is my preferred location for a radar scanner - for several reasons - but if a vessel already has a stern pole mount or a backstay mount, the fact is that there is little advantage to be gained in return for the hassle of changing an already successful installation.]

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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Channel Islander
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Larry,

Do you prefer a pole or a backstay mount for a radome?

Thanks,
-nick

Sent from my XT894 using Tapatalk 2

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

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GaryB
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The only advantage to a mast mount over a pole mount is the height. I'm not sure about anyone else, but my only interest is what is immediately around me within 1/4 to 1/2 mile. 6 foot height  will give you roughly about 7 miles to the horizon.
Ditto to Larry's comment on the AP.

Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine

FlyMeAway
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Posts: 241

One factor here is cost (and time!). If your existing radar is mast-mounted, you've already got a mount (adapter brackets for the new radomes are available and cheap, last I checked) and you've already got existing cables you can use as snakes (with sufficient quantities of gaffer's tape, none of this should fall apart).

A good stern-mounted radar mast is ~$900, plus the extra work installing the mast and laying new cable runs. The additional cable is probably only around $100-200. So you save $600 plus the hassle of installing the mast, which requires drilling holes in your boat (always nerve-wracking!)

David
s/v Portmanteau
Hull #2133 -- 2003 MKII
Seattle, WA

jmcelwee
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Yes, if you've already got a mast mount, I see no reason not to use it.  I'm guessing Larry's point was directed to the other gentleman who already had a pole mount.

Once I have my new fancy radar mounted and running, I'd love to take a radar course.  Larry, keep announcing those online courses you teach, one of these days I'll be in attendance!

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

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LCBrandt
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Yes, my comment re using a stern pole mount was considering the vessel already had that installation. I have amended my earlier post with a clarification to that effect. My preference is for a mast mount, all other factors being equal. But everything in life is a compromise.

And Nick, regarding pole or backstay mount, I really don't have personal experience with either. Again, it seems like a compromise. As far as the radar cares, it's an equal proposition. I imagine decision factors come down to how much weight you want swinging on the backstay versus cost to install a pole. Owner preference, I guess.

 

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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LCBrandt
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Josh, I am scheduled to give a 1- to 1 1/2 hour Intro to Marine Radar webinar on December 3 for Great Lakes Cruising Club. Do an online search for the GLCC and check their website for details. It's not a full radar course, but it is a healthy introduction to the topic. Time well spent, I'm told.

New news: I'll be giving similar Intro to Marine Radar​ presentations at the Seattle Boat Show on January 30 (1930 Red Stage) and January 31 (1200 Green Stage). AND also at the Seattle Boat Show I will be instructing a 3-hour 'Boat Show U' course on Using Radar for Collision Avoidance on the evening of January 31. [Title of this course not yet final.]

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

jmcelwee
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Posts: 102

Update #1:

So far, things are coming along ok.  I've spent 2 afternoons simply fishing wires for the new electronics, and removing old redundant wiring.  A few hang-ups so far and future issues to work around:

1.  Whoever installed the wiring to the pedestal decided that they needed to pump a few gallons of sealant into the angle guard that the wires run into, I guess to insure they didn't move around?  Trying to scrape that out has taken several hours.  Lesson learned: Do not use sealant in this way, it is dumb.

2.  Some newer cables have rather large connectors, that makes fishing them through tights spots pretty difficult.  Seatalk cables, for instance, have pretty fat end connectors.  This has required enlarging the holes in the pedestal angle guard so that I could get all of the wires through.  A dremel carbide cutting bit (9901 or 9903) comes in handy here.

3.  The cabling for the radar is going to be a nightmare.  These are large cables, with large connectors, and fishing them through the boat was not enjoyable (that was just for the 10m network wire).  The actual cable that connects to the radar and runs through the mast will be even more of a problem, as the small hole at the bottom of the mast where cables exit is too small to get the cable into, using the old cable as a messenger.  My hope is that I can carefully enlarge this hole enough via the dremel to get the new cable into it, being careful not to nick any of the wiring currently exiting there.  I really do not want to have to unstep the mast just to run one cable up to the radar...

4.  As all of the old raymarine sensors (depth, wind, speed) have cables that run all the way to the pedestal, I needed the iTC5 converter to get all of those to talk to the new seatalk system.  Luckily, the iTC5 fits nicely inside the navpod where the new i70's are going, so can be used there to connect with all the old wiring that's already present.

More work to come over the holiday break, hopefully I can get the new autopilot hardware installed.

-J

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

Maine Sail
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Posts: 324

[quote=jmcelwee]

3.  The cabling for the radar is going to be a nightmare.  These are large cables, with large connectors, and fishing them through the boat was not enjoyable (that was just for the 10m network wire).  The actual cable that connects to the radar and runs through the mast will be even more of a problem, as the small hole at the bottom of the mast where cables exit is too small to get the cable into, using the old cable as a messenger.  My hope is that I can carefully enlarge this hole enough via the dremel to get the new cable into it, being careful not to nick any of the wiring currently exiting there.  I really do not want to have to unstep the mast just to run one cable up to the radar...

[/quote]

#1 Make sure you got "new stock" on radome and plotter. Old Raynet was a square plug and new Raynet is round. There have been numerous issues with folks buying old stock on-line and getting round and square....

#2 Test your radar cable and other cables BEFORE running them. I had a customer who insisted on buying his own gear last year. Seeing as it was Raymarine I said sure.. I ran the radar cable to mast base, installed both plotters and all the other instruments and tested what we could on the hard in his heated barn. All worked fine.. Unfortunately, and without consulting me, he delivered the radome & cable/wire to the boat yard where his mast is stored. The boat yard ran the radome cable down the mast which was 80 miles away at the boat yard and installed the dome. Boat was launched, everything was connected & of course the only thing we could not test, the radar, did not work.

Raymaine could not provide pin-outs for over two days, my additional labor was about 4 hours to tell him the cable was bad (long involved story). Long and short he had to return to boat yard, decommission spar, sails etc., (which he had just paid for)  unstep spar, run new cable, re-step, re-tune and re-rig approx $1600.00 plus my additional labor..... Raymarine's response. We're sorry here's a cable at N/C........... Needless to say I was sure glad he bough & supplied his own equipment!!!

#3 If you have trouble getting radome cables down the spar or through the boat, as a last resort, cut the deck end RayNet off and use the Garmin field installable waterproof network splice in its place.......

 

-Maine Sail
https://www.marinehowto.com/

 

jmcelwee
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Posts: 102

Thanks, Maine!  As always, great advice.  My cable is round, so I'm guessing it must be the new stock.  Very good point on testing the cable and radome before going through the effort of installing!

For the garmin splice, you don't happen to know what the part number is for that?  Will keep that in mind as the back-up strategy if I can't get the current connector into the spar.

Thx!
-J

Josh McElwee
Sailing from East Greenwich, RI
2000 C36 MKII, M35B, "Chinook", Hull#1900

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