Bottom paint question

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rtrinkle
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Bottom paint question

I'm getting ready to paint the bottom this spring. I had it painted 2 years ago by the boat yard. They had to replace the barrier coat, and put 2 coats of hard paint.

This question has probably been asked before, but I'm tired of searching, and can't find a good answer. I'm thinking of using ablative this time, as the boat yard says ablative can be put on hard paint, but not vice versa.

Since I'm in the mid-lower Chesapeake (Stingray Point, Rappahanock River), what would be the preferred paint? I also suspect 2 coats of ablative or 1 coat of hard paint would suffice on top of the current hard paint? I also suspect 2 gallons should be enough? A marina neighbor also recommended using a green pad to rough up the surface of the hard paint instead of sand paper. I have a 6" random orbital sander to use. If sand paper is preferred, what grit should I use? I was thinking 80 or 150.

One last question, what is the best way to address the screw? If I clean it down to metal, what is the best way to protect it from growth, and what do I need to prep it before I put on the final coat?

Thanks in advance to your thoughtful answers.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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plaineolde
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I can't answer specifically for your area of the Chesapeake, but I've been using an ablative for about a decade, applied over a hard epoxy paint, originally applied by the dealer. I've been using Interlux Fiberglass Bottomkote ACT, using just about a gallon per year (I haul out every winter). I do have a few areas that flake off over the winter each year, and could probably benefit from a soda blasting to remove it all, since there are about 13-14 years worth on there. Maybe next year. The past few years, I've had lots of soft growth, and more than a few barnacles. But... I get a quick haul and wash in Sept. and asked the marina owner how I compared to everyone else, and he said I was actually better than most he sees. Seems the extra hot, wet summers of the past few years affect the growth.

I'm on Worton Creek which is fresh/brackish water, so may not apply to your area.

Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay

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Rockman
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A recent discussion over here in Australia about the application of antifoul.
Some yards do not allow enough time between coats for the paint to dry properly. This is all done in the name of reducing the yard rental costs. Plus if if wears off quickly because it was not applied correctly, then you have to haul it out again and reapply - generating them some extra $$$.

Conclusion - check the drying times and follow the manufacturers recommendations.

Cat375 - Rock The Boat - Hull 54
Lake Macquarie - NSW - Australia

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rtrinkle
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I got the same reaction when I had the bottom scrubbed last summer. Growth was more than usual due to the hotter than normal summers. Right now it looks like I'll probably go with ablative, unless someone thinks it's better for hard paint.

What should I prep the paint with? Green pad or sand paper? If sand paper, what grit should I use? 80, 120, 150?

My final question was about the prop. Any good recommendations on how to prep and protect?

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

pierview
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Posts: 598

If you can develop a product that would keep the prop and shaft clean you'll make a fortune... people try all different things but none work really well.

I've been using the Hydrocoat water based paint with the slim resistor for the past two years. Its a multi season paint and last fall it came out of the water in such good shape I'm only going to touch up a few spots, particularly along the water line. Before this coat, I had sanded it pretty much down to the gelcoat. I found one gal was pretty much all I needed.

I use hard paint on the prop and shaft. If you use ablative, it just washes off. I still get some junk on it and have to clean it a couple of times during the summer. Someone is going to say I shouldn't do that because the brass prop and the properties of the paint don't coexist, but I've been doing it this way for over 20 years and have not had a problem. The only issue is I get a slight hum sound at lower RPM when I first launch from the paint on the tip of the blades. This stops once some of the paint on the tips wears off.

By the way, we had a paint company guy give a talk about bottom paint and he was asked the question you asked about the prop. He suggested a primer paint and then hard paint. I followed his directions to the letter and had no better results then what I do now... simple hard bottom paint.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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rtrinkle
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Hard paint on the prop. Sounds good to me.

Is this the Pettit hydrocoat sr paint? Just want to ensure I look for the correct type. We do get a good bit of slim and algae on the bottom. When you sand, what grit do you use?

Thanks for all the good info.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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Rockman
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Posts: 237

We use Prop Speed on the prop (funnny about that). I was told that for it to work, you need to spin the prop every few weeks - to throw the growth off the prop. Even if you are not going out sailing, just rev the engine and turn the prop. Not sure if its ideal for the engine to run for a short period of time, but I am sure somebody will let us know.

Cat375 - Rock The Boat - Hull 54
Lake Macquarie - NSW - Australia

William Miller
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Posts: 294

I used Pettits barnacle barrier coat on the prop and shaft .I haul out every 3 years and it seems to work. Alot of boat yards in the pacific northwest are using it

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

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Chachere
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We've used Lanocote or some automotive bearing grease on the prop and shaft. The grease seemed to work better than the Lanocote.

We're in different waters than you (East End of Long Island) so our paint experience may not be relevant, but we've used WestMarine PCA Gold (ablative) for a while with good results -- seems to last several seasons with just a light touch-up at winter haulout. 1 gallon will do.

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

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rtrinkle
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I suppose when you all say 1 gallon should do, that it will only have 1 coat of ablative paint? Reason I ask, is I am thinking of putting 2 coats on the bottom so the paint will last longer. I don't haul out every year, but every other year, and this is the year to haul out.

What do you all recommend for prepping the bottom prior to painting? Just a light sanding and clean with denatured alcohol? What grit should be used to sand the hard paint in order to apply the ablative?

I also like all the different products for the prop.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

pierview
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Posts: 598

I usually get almost 2 coats with one gal. That being said, if your going with 2 gal's, keep painting until your out of paint. Then you'll be sure to get at least 2 years out of it. Some people use abaltive with a different color from the base bottom coat so you can see when your abaltive is wearing thru.

I sand with a medium grit before painting and wipe it down with acetone... I guess any thinner would work as well. I don't know about where you are, but in our yard we have to use a vacuum sander. I use a shop vac and put a large contractor garbage bag inside the vacuum. That way most of the dust is right in the bag for disposal. The sander itself gets messy but all you can do it wipe it down afterwards.

Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072 Mk II
2002 Tall Rig - Winged Keel
Atlantic Highlands, NJ

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rtrinkle
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Good info, thanks.

I was thinking of using the hard paint color (black) as my indicator, and then getting red for the ablative paint. That way I can put 2 coats of red on. Does that sound sufficient? Probably use 80 grit sand paper with my random orbital sander, that does have a bag to catch dust.

Also , when painting the bottom, i suppose you get extra stand jacks so you move the placement of the stands easily. Is there any specific place where the jacks need to go, or just close to the original stands?

Using an ablative (probably hydrocoat). How fast are drying times to apply second coat, and launch? I would love to do all the work in 1 weekend.

One last question, what is the best way to get rid of barnacles and growth from the bottom before starting the project?

Thank for all the advise.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

William Miller
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Posts: 294

Pressure washing will remove the barnacles and growth

Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1

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rtrinkle
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Cool. I was hoping it would, but didn't want to make an assuMption, and hence another trip to the store for alternatives.

Thanks to all for you insight in this. I think I have a good idea and plan now.

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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deising
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Posts: 1351

Robert, the jack stand question depends on the yard. Some are VERY insistent that no one touch the jack stands except yard employees. They are afraid that someone who messes up will topple the boat and maybe damage others, too.

What is done, however, is to place an additional jack stand next to the one you want to remove. Get it set properly against the hull, chain it to the opposite stand, and then remove the old one to prep and paint the spot it covered.

Your keel will be resting on a block of wood. The only way you will get access to that for any work/painting is when the boat is hanging from the travel lift. My yard builds in a little time for you to scrape/paint the bottom of the keel if you want.

Good luck with the work. It can be grueling at times, but worth it knowing you did a good job.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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fstbttms
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[QUOTE=rtrinkle;21622]...the boat yard says ablative can be put on hard paint, but not vice versa.[/QUOTE]

This is an untrue generalization that says plenty about the boatyard.

Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!

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rtrinkle
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Thanks for all your comments. After thorough thought and speaking with the yard. I decided to let them do the job with red ablative. The cost was actually less expensive than me doing it myself (after haul out and real estate rent). They did a great job. There were no problems with the hull. A pretty quick haul and paint job. The boat was back in the water when we wanted to use it. Troubadour is much faster and a delight to sail. 

Robert Trinkle
Troubador, 1995 C36 MKII #1433, SR/WK
Universal M35A
Kinsale Harbor Marina
Kinsale, VA

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