Henry,

Welcome aboard.

I do not have any suggestions for a diesel technician as I do my own engine repairs. Fleet 9 usually holds a yearly diesel seminar put on by a local technician. You may want to check with them for suggestions.

PS, I am in Grand Marina, if I can be of help let me know, just leave a check for $1000. on my boat (just kidding).

Steve

I personally would not allow that work to go forward without a contract and price. I'd also get at least one 2nd opinion, with a firm quote. I do most work myself, but when getting someone else to do work, there has always been a quote/contract provided by the guy who runs the marina. I just got a quote from him this morning to get the stem fitting welded; price included the stainless fabricators travel time, plus the actual work. If the surveyor provided a list of what needs to be done, it should not be a problem to get a price, plus a completion date.

It seems to me that there is also a bit of a conflict of interest having the surveyor perform the work; I'd want an independent surveyor/mechanic who has no stake in finding something wrong.

Oh yes, and welcome to the forum..!!!

What work needs to be done?

Henry,
Something sounds suspicious. I agree with Gary. Get at least one more opinion, and definitely get a firm quote in writing. It's hard enough to end up with a final price close to the quoted price when dealing with boats, but so far you have described a very "loosey-goosey" operation. Even with a stellar reputation, there is far too much room for misunderstanding and dissapointment.

PS-Welcome to C36/375IA - you will LOVE the C36. It does everything well!

I also perform my engine maintenance - I can not call it repair - rather maintenance - as in replacing the oil, filers, hoses, raw water pump, etc. I am a contractor and all contractors must provide detailed parts and labour rates estimate. Also plan that the final amount will be about 15% more than what the estimate was. So If you are handy then roll up your sleeves and perform the task yourself. You may have to do this one day on the water when your engine acts up. If you need some training - Modern Sailing School has diesel engine classes that you can sign up for. It is usually $ 225.00. It is a one day class - hands on. Call Molly to RSVP.
2310 Marinship Way
Sausalito, CA 94965
(415) 331-8250
modernsailing.com

Speaking of Oil change - the manual for M35B calls of 10W30 engine oil. The last 2 oil changes I used this type made for diesel engines. Now I can not get this oil and the stores are trying to tell me to use 15W40. Even a diesel mechanic shop recommended 15W40. So what do you experts use and is there a difference between gasoline and diesel engine oil?

I wanted to to let you know that - I followed Stu's recommendation and I "ditched" the Universal raw water pump and I will be installing Oberdorfer N202M-16 with some minor mounting plate modification. It was at $ 216.00 instead of $ 399.00. I will post some photos when completed.
Thank You Stu.

Chin, Marty
Bus: (510) 435-8870
Mobile: (510) 435-8870
E-mail: [email]baymarinediesel@comcast.net[/email]

Henry,

I have used Marty (Bay Marine Diesel) on several occasions and have been very pleased with his work and and his work ethic. He has a good reputation in the SF area. I'd suggest you give him a call and describe your issue. He is based in Alameda. He has never asked for any money up front and has always given me an estimate. I receive his bill after the work is completed. He's also open to you being on the boat while he is doing the work. I've learned something new about my diesel engine every time I've been a spectator.

Chris

Henry,

It does all boil down to references and your comfort level.
1000 bucks is a substantial sum, but without knowing the work scope there is no way to judge the value. This leave a check system I have used with divers, sail lofts, canvas shops among others without issues, again it depends on you comfort level.

I will assume a grand is going to buy a days time of a good technician plus parts. If you get an oil change, new alt belt, valve adjustment, alignment, impeller replacement, zinc replacement and maybe a injector nozzle cleaning, you are probably getting your monies worth and more.

If you can get someone to show you how to do these things you will have a better understanding of you engine. Not everyone has the time, demenor and aptitude for this. If this is the case it goes back to your comfort level with the vendor. Most marine techs are fairly casual few are crooks, I would worry more about competence than a polished business style.

[QUOTE=baysailor2000;12114] is there a difference between gasoline and diesel engine oil?
[/QUOTE]

There is definitely a difference between oil for a gasoline and diesel engine. You do NOT want to use oil that is not rated for a diesel engine, doing so could cause expensive bearing damage. Diesel engines run at much higher compression ratios than gasoline engines, and require different oil to survive.

I found this with a google search; note the letter "C" indicating rating for diesel engines.
"
If the API rating (SJ-CF) starts with an "S" that means the oil is rated for a gasoline engine. SA, SB, SC, SD ratings are obsolete. The only current ratings are SG, SH and SJ with SG being the lowest rating and SJ being the highest. The API rating may have a dash then a CA, CB, CC, CD or a CF rating which gives the oil a diesel engine rating. Again, CA is the lowest rating, CF is the highest.
"

Please do post the work list you had in mind. This will help in evaluating whether you are even close to getting your money's worth I think.

As others have said, if you have any mechanical inclination (or at least minimal fear and enough willingness to try), doing many of the mechanical duties for our boats in not as intimidating as it sounds.

I am the perfect example! We bought our boat nearly four years ago and I knew nothing about diesel engines. I AM mechanically inclined, but beyond that as a starting point, I was new at the iron genny game!

Now I do 90% of all the work on the boat and I use this forum (along with the occasional course and reading material) to keep my learning on track.

I think one does have to somewhat like the mechanical hands on work in order to do this (versus having enough money to pay someone- that is NOT a commentary on status!!! I just don't have the money nor inclination to pay someone if I can do it myself.).

Welcome to the Forum and you will LOVE the C36!!!

I use 15W-40, have used it for 20 years in farm tractors that really earn their keep and never any issues. In winter I plug it in, that oil is too thick for below zero temps but that's not usually a problem with boats. Diesel oil has a special additive package to keep the carbon from incomplete combustion in suspension in the oil. That problem doesn't exist with gas engines.

try Jason @ Proline Service - he has conducted meetings @ fleet 9 - knowledgeable and fair pricing - [email]jason@prolineservice.com[/email], 510.206.5224
your vessel is almost 30 yrs old - with little or no maintenance/repairs you could easily put a grand into it-

Bay Marine Diesel. Barbara died earlier this year, but they have a great reputation.

Look in Latitude 38. [email]baymarinediesel@comcast.net[/email] On the Oakland side of the estuary, right off the Oakland sailing school.

Those quotes are crazy. Take them one at time, don't do a big package deal, really. Buy the hoses yourself, easy to measure, even with your infirmity.

I'll comment individually on our items tomorrow, just got back from a nice two day sail to Horseshoe Cove. Nice sail Saturday, no air today and an afternoon ebb. :)

Thanks Gary for the explanation. I thought there was a difference but I did not know how to tell the difference.
The Universal Manual calls for 10W30 and this is what I have used in the past that the label indicates it is for diesel engine. I am having difficulty in finding the same oil now. West Marine and even marine mechanics are saying to use 15W30. Is that also OK? I have not been able to find 10W30 yet.

This is my opinion, as I'm not an expert. But based on what I've found, I think 15W30 would be just fine.

If you google 10W30, you can find several links that help clarify the meaning of the numbers. The "W" number is the cold or Winter viscosity. So a 15W30 would be slightly 'thicker' at startup (cold) than the 10W30, but the same (30) hot viscosity. I found conflicting explanations of the temperature that the cold number is established, but it's colder than I'd like to be on the water.

Henry,

Hi Stu,
Thank you for your interest. The Catalina owners group has to be the best in the world judging from all the replies and advice I have been given.

[I]This and our C34 group, many of whom read BOTH, are a really nice bunch of skippers.[/I]

I have been advised by the good folks at Fleet 9 to attend a one day diesel class and this I will do. I was also referred to Martin at Bay Marine and Proline and have left messages for both. I plan on getting quotes from both.

[I]Just spoke with a dockmate today, he says Martin is good, but $55 an hour. Could get pretty expensive. Before you get quotes, you might want to arrange a list of things to do in very specific terms.[/I]

I wish I could do the work myself as it really is not that difficult but after suffering a stroke five years ago I do not have the dexterity in my right hand necessary for most of this work in cramped quarters. I will definitely be changing my own oil and after the diesel class will at least be more knowledgeable.

[I]Diesel classes are good. Even better, get a course on your own engine, ‘cuz learning about a Yanmar ain’t gonna help with your Universal. Each engine has quirks, like mine, for instance: it tends to throw coupler bolts and engine mount foot lag bolts.[/I]

To answer your question, also voiced by others, the work I want done is the following:

1.) Repair transmission fluid leak - There is a 8 -9 drop per hour leak from the transmission near the linkage. The mechanic topped off the fluid when he did the survey and I was able to bring the boat home from Vallejo to Alameda since the engine ran for only one hour. However, I am now grounded, so to speak, until the repair is complete. There is a two inch water hose directly above the transmission dipstick and filler hole. The mechanic states that this is not original. He can re-route the hoses so that checking transmission oil fluid level is easy. That is, if laying on your back over the propeller shaft in the aft cabin with an 11/16th box wrench working upside down is considered easy.

[I]Usually the HX is in the way, not hoses. Odd, must be a PO nightmare. Could be the old C36 hose contraption, too. Yes, sounds like someone really ought to look at the transmission. What does “top up the fluid” mean? Perhaps someone really filled it up instead of just to the dipstick, hence the leak. Check the level first before calling in the marines.[/I]

2.) Re-route aforementioned hoses

3.) Replace bell housing - There is a one inch ceramic epoxy repair to a crack that the mechanic had never seen before. He is recommending replacing the bell housing and states he may be able to find a refurbished housing.

[I]Yikes.[/I]

4.) Clean up and paint engine - The engine looks like it has never been repainted with some peeling paint indicating past overheating. The cylinder compression tests were even and good so in the mechanics opinion the overheating probably did not damage the engine.

[I]Have you asked Carl yet?[/I] [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1947.0.html[/url]

5.) Replace all hoses and belts - I would like to upgrade the water hose from the impeller to the heat exchanger to a 7/8" hose as recommended in this website.

6.) Upgrade heat exchanger to 3" model - This is also an upgrade in this website. I noticed that under full power the temperature went up and since the engine is hanging in the air this is a good time to upgrade the heat exchanger.

[I]I did that. Great idea.[/I]

7.) Repair stiffness in throttle and shifter at the helm.

[I]Something you might be able to do. [url]www.edsonmarine.com[/url] has good info.[/I]

8.) Quote for high output alternator - The alternator bracket and wiring harness have both been upgraded as recommended in this website and the last upgrade would be the alternator. I am not sure if the cost is worth it but I am adding a chart plotter and the boat has a full suite of Raymarine ST-60 electronics including autopilot along with a windlass, stereo and radar.

[I]If you’re going to be marina hopping, you might want to put this off for a while. You should actually design a complete electrical system upgrade instead of doing it piecemeal. Poke around on our “101 Topics” and read the electrical stuff and we can talk some more.[/I]

9.) Realign propeller shaft - The marine survey indicates that the shaft is slightly off and that it should be realigned.

10.) Make sure engine alarms are functional.

[QUOTE=henry1296;12172]Hi Stu,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful replies.

I will talk to Carl tomorrow.

I met with Marty from Bay Marine Diesel today and I was impressed with his professionalism. However, he is quoting me $100/hour labor. How old is your figure of $55/hr?

Thanks,

Henry[/QUOTE]

Today.

You should also check on the alternator bracket upgrade on your M25. Check our Critical Upgrades topic. Woops, just saw it was done,

Good luck.

Henry,

What was your final decision? Did you figure our the $55 vs. $100 per/hr.?

I'd suggest there are a few of the items on your list you can do yourself. The alternator, given you have the wire harness and alternator bracket upgrade, you should be able to do yourself. It's not that difficult to remove the old alternator and replace with a new one. They are the exact same size. The wiring is pretty straight forward. Ours site pretty much walks you through it. You can either go on line to buy your alternator or I would suggest contacting Gen Star in Oakland. They can set you up with the LN alternator (see our upgrade section), although it will be a little more money buying it through them. There are few other shops in the area the also might be able to help. And don't forget the alternator regulator upgrade. The regulator on the LN is OK but you will notice the upgrade will work noticeably better. The hoses and new larger Heat Exchanger is also not a difficult task. Check out the Outboard Motor Shop/Star Marine on the Oakland side of the Hight Street Bridge for prices or the net. The HX can be done at the same time you install your new hoses. Painting your engine can be done in he middle of all of this when you have all of the hoses, belt, and alternator off. The painted surface of the engine would be more acessable and you would only have to tape off a few areas...

One last must, if you do not have it, is to set up a solenoid for you glow plugs if you don't already have it. Your glow plug time will go from 40-50 seconds down to around 5-10 seconds. It's another project on our site and is not difficult.

Also seeing you are in Alameda if you happen to visit Svendsen's they have a program for new boat owners that gives you their wholesale prices for a month or so...

And if you need some help I'm at my boat a couple of days a week either tinkering on a project or out sailing. I'd could be available to help out or at least tell you what worked for me or what didn't work...

Chris