The first part of our long cruise will take us through the Okeechobee Waterway where there is a fixed bridge clearance of nominally 49 ft. The actual clearance varies with the level in the canal (thankfully, the Corps of Engineers publishes daily levels and bridge clearance info on their website).
There is an entrepreneur who gets quite a wad of cash to 'tip' sailboats with masts taller than the bridge clearance. His method is to put plastic barrels on one sidedeck, secure them with a line from the bow cleat to the primary winch, then pump water into the barrels until you have the clearance you need to motor under the bridge.
If I have to enlist the services of this guy, I will, but from the stories I have heard, I am not keen on it. Right now the bridge clearance is 50.7 ft. I can do the trig to know how much I have to heel the boat, but here is (finally) my question:
Who has employed some tricks to heel their boat successfully? I plan to make a trial with my 250 lb dinghy/engine held to one side with the boom and using the main halyard and a snatch block to hoist the dink. Then I will measure the heel angle and see how much that gets me.
Just wondering if anyone has any results to report. Thanks!
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
It is done all the time... Watch this video
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiv0fxFcV3I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiv0fxFcV3I[/URL]
Ross & Joanne
Wavelength
Saint John NB
RKYC
C36 #658 TR 1987
I would suggest starting your kagel excercises a few weeks before attempting this just to get your sphincter in shape.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Ross, I have seen that video, but that doesn't tell me what it takes to successfully heel our C36. :)
Steve, I get that pucker even going under a 65 ft bridge. When you look almost straight up, it always looks like you are going to hit.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Oh Steve, [I]that[/I] is a great comment! I would have to do that as well.....
Glenn Druhot
Carpe Diem
New Bern, NC
35* 6' 10" N / 77* 2' 30" W
2001 C36, Hull #1965
Std Rig; Wing Keel; M35B
Sailing on San Francisco Bay bridge height is not much of a problem though two weeks ago I was going under the new section of the Bay Bridge. I was one span east of the highest section and though there was probably twenty or thirty feet to spare, I still made an abrupt change of coarse to pass under the tallest section. Not being used to low bridges it would take me a while to get comfortable with this. At least heeled you would have a better sight line on the clearance as looking straight up gives little perception of the clearance.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Duane, kegel exercises won't help much. You're probably going to leak a few drops as you near that bridge no matter what you do.
BTW, does the Okeechobee have the depth to get a keelboat across the state? Maybe bridge clearance is a moot point?
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Larry,
The Corps' website is pretty informative in that it computes the minimum depth you should see along the route, and the bridge clearance for the only bridge under 55 ft (nominal), based upon that day's exact lake/canal level. There are locks along the way (with minimal change in elevation), so the bridge clearances at any given point are governed by the level of the water in that section of the waterway.
The minimum depth today along the deeper route is 6.9 ft (vice 5.1 for the shallow route). What they don't tell you is how much of the trip is spent with inches of water under your keel. Navigating through a shallow spot for a bit is one thing. Cruising along at 5+ kts with less than 6 inches under you is not something I would want to do.
We are getting pretty excited about it.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Bridge clearance issues, now skinny water in the Okachobee where you can go aground surrounded by aligators, oh boy.
That skinny water stuff is like doing 60 naked on a street luge, a few inches clearance is all you need but being that close makes you shrivel, a benifit on the street luge, not sure it helps on the boat.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Steve gets the award this week for BEST descriptive language!!
Just so you guys know.... a kagel excercise has a wide range of meanings when taking gender into account. Just sayin'.......
Laura Olsen
Past Commodore
S/V Miramar
hull 938 (MKI 1989, TR,WK, M25xp)
Edgemere, MD
Whoa! Thanks for the heads-up. I looked it up in my iPhone dictionary app and learned a lot more than I wish I knew about this. In our defense, I am sure that any references made in this thread were from the MPPPP...that is, the Male Pre- or Post-Prostatectomy Perspective.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Dilemma! :eek:
It's GOOD that the water is LOW, 'cuz you can get under bridge.
It's BAD that the water is LOW, 'cuz your keel could hit the bottom.
Can you do both on the same day???:confused:
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Sure, Stu. The deeper route across the lake is carrying 6.9 ft minimum depth right now and the bridge height is at 50.5 ft. The level can still drop another foot without impacting our ability to keep the keel off the bottom, and that would give us enough bridge clearance.
Speaking of the lake, I was told it is quite surreal to be out of sight of land traveling through a channel that carries 6+ feet of water, knowing that much of the lake around you carries less.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Duane - no worries, when you heel your boat you will have less height AND you will draw less at the same time!
Whangarei harbour (in NZ) has a 4 hour trip up a river which can be shallow, and I've been up and down it feeling my way for the 'deep' channel. Sometimes ploughing (plowing?) the mud with the depth sounder reading "-0.1 metre" - very stressful even on a rising tide :-)
You might want to turn off the depth alarm, it can drive you nuts! Go well :-)
S.V. Wind Star
Rob & Margie Kyles: Auckland ,New Zealand
Mk I Hull #105 1983 Std Rig, Std Keel
Thanks, Rob.
With a wing keel, however, the draft actually increases when you heel, up to a point. No worries with the depth at this point; it is just the 'air draft' I am concerned with.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Ha! Should have read your signature properly :-)
I hadn't really thought of that with regards to wing keels before, it does present a bit of a problem if you do get stuck!
S.V. Wind Star
Rob & Margie Kyles: Auckland ,New Zealand
Mk I Hull #105 1983 Std Rig, Std Keel
INTERESTING UPDATE
I just measured the actual height from the waterline to the top of all the masthead gear (not counting the flexible VHF antenna) and found it to be 50 ft 10 inches. I measured twice and got the same number.
First, I put tape marks on a piece of PVC pipe and taped it to the main halyard shackle. At the zero point on the tape marks, I attached a 50 ft long measuring tape and hoisted it up the mast. Then I sighted with binoculars from my backyard and saw that 2 ft from the zero point gave me a few inches clearance over the gear.
I then stretched the tape to the top of the deck and measured. then I went inside the boat and measured up from the known (within 1 inch) waterline level to the overhead liner. I guesstimated 2 inches from there to the top of the deck.
When I added it all up, it was 50 ft 10 inches.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
And you'll gain a little more clearance by being in fresh water; but you'll also forfeit draft to get that.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
[QUOTE=deising;12280]I just measured the actual mast height from the waterline to the top of all the masthead gear (not counting the flexible VHF antenna) and found it to be 50 ft 10 inches.[/QUOTE]
I am really curious if anyone with a standard rig has attempted to make an actual measurement and how your results compare with mine.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Sitting here in PDX in a coffee shop I was explaining to Daniela how you were planning to heel the boat to get enough clearance to go under the bridges on the OK Canal. She said, "How will they get enough weight to do that? Hoist Clyde up in a bosun's chair?" If Clyde isn't heavy enough for the job we have one that might do quite well.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Yes, Clyde the boat cat is now at 18 pounds. He has seen us (mostly Diane) packing for months now, so he knows something is up. That's the thing about animals, you can't make them understand that when they get conscripted to the boat it will be a 2-hour or a 7-month adventure. Proabably just as well. ;)
As for the heeling trials, that will happen tomorrow if plans hold up. I will report.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
As suspected, our C36 is relatively stiff.
With a 250 lb dinghy hanging from halyards using the boom to keep it outboard of the hull, I measured 2.5 deg. Adding about 80 lb of water to the dinghy got me to 3.3 deg. Having my 240 lb of bulk standing at the rail and leaning out slightly over the boom got us to 5 deg.
Interestingly, when I take the weights and multiply by the distance from the centerline of the boat to the approximate center of mass, each stage of the measurement yielded very close to 1,000 lb-ft of moment per degree of heel. That would change (increase) as we heeled farther, of course, but it is a good rough number to know.
Nothing during the experiment seemed like a strain, but I don’t know how much more water I would feel comfortable adding to the dinghy. My conclusion is that it does take a fair amount of moment (weight times distance) to get any appreciable heel. Even 5 degrees buys you just a little over 2 inches of extra clearance, which in our case might just be enough.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Duane,
Looking at your blog it looks like you made it through with room to spare (52' under the bridge). Is this information published or do you have to contact the bridge by phone or radio? I couldn't find the daily depth and bridge clearance data. Draft does not appear to be any issue, just bridge clearance.
Also, does anyone have the contact info for the guy that does the tilting?
Looking at buying a boat on the east coast and given it's Hurricane season I am thinking this to be the smartest way to get it home.
2000 C36 MKII 1825
I believe this is still his number: Billy Owens (tel:561 262 5200)
This web page has a small frame with some pertinent info. You need to scroll down to see the daily bridge clearance.
[url]http://w3.saj.usace.army.mil/h2o/currentLL.shtml[/url]
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
We've been across the lake and under the bridge several times, being tipped and squeezing under it also. With a standard rig, and a 51 foot bridge height, you can do it. We did not even touch our antenna. I have to give Duane the credit as he convinced us to do it. He actually went under a couple of hours before we did. It is a bit unnerving.
To get tipped, you need to call Billie at 861-262-5200. He puts barrels along the side of your boat, fills them with water, and off you go. It takes about 30 minutes once he starts.
Here is the web site for the bridge info:
[url]http://w3.saj.usace.army.mil/h2o/currentLL.shtml[/url]
If it doesn't work, it's The US Army Corps of Engineers, Jacksonville District, Lake Okechobee & Navigation Depth Report. It posts daily the bridge clearance and the depth for the route across the lake.
If you need info on the route, let me know and we can talk. We like to figure about 4 days from Stuart to Charlotte Harbor area.
David S. Power
Two If By Sea #1687
Burnt Store Marina
Punta Gorda, FL
Thanks, David. Uh, not sure about that 861 area code.
Everyone needs to keep in mind that being able to squeak under the low RR bridge without tipping depends upon the actual water level in that locked portion of the Waterway on that day. Today, the clearance is under 50 feet and we would hit the bridge for sure without being tipped.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Thanks for the response, this is exactly what I was looking for.
If going through today, it looks like a "tilt" will be needed.
Bridge Clearance = 49.58'
2000 C36 MKII 1825
Duane is right about the area code. I have it right in my phone. Just did not get it right here. Perhaps that is why I should wear my glasses.
561-262-5200
David S. Power
Two If By Sea #1687
Burnt Store Marina
Punta Gorda, FL
David,
Bought the boat, it's being delivered this week in Stuart, Fl.
I would be very interested in your transit across the OCW from Stuart to the Gulf.
Jim
2000 C36 MKII 1825
Jim, I did the trip (partially with David) in Apr 2012 going W to E. Check out the blog under my signature for details, if that helps.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
I make this trip up the waterway twice a year from Stuart FL through the St Lucie locks to Indiantown Marina where I haul the Lila Jean (my Catalina 375 #16) for the hurricane season. I have not ventured all the way to the Big Lake because the C375 needs 54 feet plus instruments and the fixed bridge beyond Indiantown is only 50 feet. But I must navigate the Palm City Bridge in Stuart which is 54 feet and too close for comfort. Thus I use the old water bladders from my son's wake board power boat to hang on the end of my boom. You can buy these bladders from wake boarding shops. I fill the bladders with water from my deck power wash system and then haul the filled bladders out to give me some tilt. After passing the bridge I simply pull the plug on the bladders and they empty. I have attached a picture. I get up to 10 degrees heel or about 8 inches extra clearance but the VHF antenna still clangs on the bridge. The Palm City Bridge is tidal so I can pick low tides but you do not have that option on the Lake water. This is all very stressful even after doing it for 4 years.
Good luck.
Rod Tennyson
Lila Jean