Over the past moth or so the rudder had become harder and harder to turn. The problem finally got to the point I didn't need to tighten the pedestal brake to keep the boat on course, the tight rudder took care of that for me. Even the autohem was laboring to correct course.
The following day I spent the morning/afternoon trying to figure out what the problem was on my 1984 C36, Hull #251. I first directed my attention to the Edson steering pedestal. I inspected the system from above and found nothing out of the ordinary. The chain appeared to have plenty of lubrication and the connection between the chain and ss cable appeared to be solid and not binding or catching on anything.
I went below and removed the box that covers the lower unit and cables. I found the "Pull-Pull" system ([url]http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf[...) to be intact and free of kinks or anything else that might cause it to bind. I did find the cable was not aligned with the quadrant. I loosened the nuts aligning the "Pull-Pull/conduit" cable with the quadrant and corrected the problem. Still the rudder was stiff and difficult to turn.
I next removed the starboard ss cable from the quadrant and turned the steering wheel. The wheel turned with little effort.
With the cable still removed I tried to move the rudder. I could barely budge the the quadrant.
I inspected the rudder shaft below the quadrant and above the stuffing box
( [url]http://c34ia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Packing_Gland[/url]). I found grease on the bare shaft which was like dried up but very sticky glue.
I removed the three bolts holding the upper bronze ring to the stuffing box. I found a packing which was still in good condition. I removed the packing to see if there was anything that I could see that was causing the problem. After removing the packing all I saw was the stuffing box.
Believing the problem with the rudder might be old circa 84 grease I filled up the stuffing box packing slot with some light oil. After about 30 seconds the oil disappeared down the fiberglass tube. I gave it one more shot of oil and waited to see if it helped.
I grabbed the quadrant and still had a hard time moving the rudder. I reinstalled the starboard ss steering cable. Using the steering wheel for leverage I turned the rudder back and forth. After turning the rudder a few time the rudder suddenly loosened up and became effortless to turn.
I have since taken the boat out two times in the past week and everything works like it should.
Now here is where I need some input...
1. Do nothing. If it aint broken...don't fix it? Leave the light oil in the shaft. If it needs more give it more.
2. I am not going to be taking the boat out of the water for awhile. I know/think the light oil is just a quick fix. I know the right thing to do is to pull the rudder but... I was thinking about putting some H2O proof grease in the stuffing box packing slot and then warming the grease and upper metal shaft with a heat gun being careful not to tamper with the fiberglass rudder shaft. If at all possible I'd like to leave the rudder alone. It seems to be working quite well right now.
3. Don't worry about the rudder if it continues to work and when the time comes to pull the boat out of the water pull the rudder and relube.
4. Got any other ideas...?
Thanks for your help,
Chris
Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA
Chris,
Welcome to the C36IA, and thank you for the well-written posting on your rudder issue. First things first...a couple housekeeping points:
1) Please use the Edit mode on your post and remove your email address. It is better to use the format "chs1517(at)comcast(dot)com," as this frustrates any spammers who might be lurking for targets. Mind you, in seven years I have not experienced spam as a result of this site, but...better to be cautious. And then...
2) Please click on the UseCP link at the upper left hand corner of this page, then click Edit Signature, and set up a signature similar to mine, that you see below this posting. Knowing more about you, your boat and where you sail will only help us to help you.
Now back to your problem. Unless someone here offers a more authoritative suggestion, I would urge you to avoid choice #2, for two reasons. An important one is that until someone confirms by citing the C36 Operator Manual that grease would help the situation, you should avoid that option. For some reason I think that using grease is not acceptable, but my C36 library is a five-hour drive away. But the most important reason to avoid that strategy is to avoid using the heat gun in the lazarette. You're based at Alameda, I think, which (I may be wrong?) means salt water. I am deathly afraid of using 120VAC tools in the lazarette, as it is surrounded by really conductive grounding material, ie salt water. See my article in this site's Upgrades section on installing a below-deck autopilot to find out how I truly feel about heat guns in the lazarette...I "filed a flight plan" before I went in there with one, and secretly admitted to myself the possibility that I might not come out the way I went in. That is, alive.
Choice #3 is the way I would go, unless somebody antes up a better idea...which I expect, as there are a lot of smarter folks than me in this association.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
I vote for #3 as well.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting such a detailed explanation. It sure is a lot easier to understand what posters are talking about when they explain it so well.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Not sure about the Mk1s, but the three Catalinas I have owned all had Delron or similar bearings for the rudder, which definitely do not use grease, only salt-water for cooling. Hope this helps
Paul
Paul and Heather Griffiths
Sarah Sue C36 Mk11 #2220
Mandurah, Western Australia
[QUOTE=chs1517;3236]Over the past moth or so the rudder had become harder and harder to turn. The problem finally got to the point I didn't need to tighten the pedestal brake to keep the boat on course, the tight rudder took care of that for me. Even the autohem was laboring to correct course.
The following day I spent the morning/afternoon trying to figure out what the problem was on my 1984 C36, Hull #251. I first directed my attention to the Edson steering pedestal. I inspected the system from above and found nothing out of the ordinary. The chain appeared to have plenty of lubrication and the connection between the chain and ss cable appeared to be solid and not binding or catching on anything.
I went below and removed the box that covers the lower unit and cables. I found the "Pull-Pull" system ([url]http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf[...) to be intact and free of kinks or anything else that might cause it to bind. I did find the cable was not aligned with the quadrant. I loosened the nuts aligning the "Pull-Pull/conduit" cable with the quadrant and corrected the problem. Still the rudder was stiff and difficult to turn.
I next removed the starboard ss cable from the quadrant and turned the steering wheel. The wheel turned with little effort.
With the cable still removed I tried to move the rudder. I could barely budge the the quadrant.
I inspected the rudder shaft below the quadrant and above the stuffing box
( [url]http://c34ia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Packing_Gland[/url]). I found grease on the bare shaft which was like dried up but very sticky glue.
I removed the three bolts holding the upper bronze ring to the stuffing box. I found a packing which was still in good condition. I removed the packing to see if there was anything that I could see that was causing the problem. After removing the packing all I saw was the stuffing box.
Believing the problem with the rudder might be old circa 84 grease I filled up the stuffing box packing slot with some light oil. After about 30 seconds the oil disappeared down the fiberglass tube. I gave it one more shot of oil and waited to see if it helped.
I grabbed the quadrant and still had a hard time moving the rudder. I reinstalled the starboard ss steering cable. Using the steering wheel for leverage I turned the rudder back and forth. After turning the rudder a few time the rudder suddenly loosened up and became effortless to turn.
I have since taken the boat out two times in the past week and everything works like it should.
Now here is where I need some input...
1. Do nothing. If it aint broken...don't fix it? Leave the light oil in the shaft. If it needs more give it more.
2. I am not going to be taking the boat out of the water for awhile. I know/think the light oil is just a quick fix. I know the right thing to do is to pull the rudder but... I was thinking about putting some H2O proof grease in the stuffing box packing slot and then warming the grease and upper metal shaft with a heat gun being careful not to tamper with the fiberglass rudder shaft. If at all possible I'd like to leave the rudder alone. It seems to be working quite well right now.
3. Don't worry about the rudder if it continues to work and when the time comes to pull the boat out of the water pull the rudder and relube.
4. Got any other ideas...?
Thanks for your help,
Chris[/QUOTE]
**********************************************************
UPDATE:
I have since had the boat out three more times since this posting. So far, so good! The steering so light to the touch I now have to watch out when under power or the boat steers to the left due to the prop walk... My old autohelm is no longer moaning and seems to enjoy the new light feel.
Thanks to all that helped me out with this problem. I will keep an eye on the problem but so far all is well.
I still plan on pulling the rudder the next time the boat is out of the water. The one thing that I am missing is a schematic of the unit. If anyone has the plans to my 84 Cat I would appreciate a copy.
Thanks again,
Chris
Chris Stewart
S/V "24~7"
1984 Catalina 36 Tall
Hull #251 M25
(SF Bay) Alameda, CA
Chris,
There's a blue banner at the very bottom of this page; go to that banner and click on "Catalina 36 International Association', just below, lower right corner.
That link will take you directly to the C36IA Homepage. Then click on 'Articles,' and on 'Maintenance.' You'll then be in a multi-page library of maintenance articles. Just scan through the pages until you find the article on the Edson Steering System.
I'd put a link here direct to the Edson article, but then I'd be cheating you of the fun of finding it yourself, and of the many other discoveries you will make in the Maintenance section (and its next door neighbor, the Upgrades section).
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
My C36 has a stiff rudder, but only under load, eg. with sails up and some heel generating some weather helm, or similar. I plan to deal with it in the spring either by having the rudder removed or maybe trying your solution.
My prior boat, an 88 Catalina 30 had the same problem. I removed the rudder and the shaft was caked with Chesapeake mud and maybe old grease. I cleaned it up, greased it and never had the problem again. Since the C36 rudder is a good bit larger/heavier, I'd like to avoid R&R'ing it if I can get away with it.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay