Talking about anchor choices is usually right up there with politics and religion for most sailors. That said, those are exactly the anchors we carry on Shadow. You didn't mention anything about rode, but what you use makes a lot of difference. Your 35 lb Delta is already larger than their "recomendation," but if you couple it with say 75 feet of chain you have a whole bunch of holding (and yes how well it holds depends on all sorts of things like type of bottom, etc.). I'm not sure why you think you need a third unless it is a storm anchor. Many writers seem to prefer the classic fisherman's anchor as a storm anchor, but the size recomended for a C36 is going to weigh something like 80lbs. and cost over $1,000. I get the age old argument that duringa storm no one ever wanted a smaller anchor, but having the third anchor seems like overkilll to me. Unless you are planning to cruise during hurricane season you are not likely to encounter winds where you will actually need a pure storm anchor. Maybe a better solution would be to make sure you have sufficient chain to increase the capacity of your Delta.

Sam,

We cruise the grounds you describe and carry just two anchors. Our primary is a 45 lb Delta with 80 feet of chain, which is overkill in many respects. We have found that t-storms come up fast and frequently with up to 70 knot winds, so every time we anchor we use the primary. We have never dragged.

Our secondary, kept on the bow pulpit, is an FX-23 Fortress with only 20 feet of chain. Both rodes use 5/8 nylon 3-strand.

We have more weight at the bow than is desirable, but on a real cruising boat, sometimes that happens.

Never miss a chance to talk anchors! We have 2 on bow rollers, a 45 lb Delta with 50' of 5/16 HT chain and 200' of 5/8 double braid and a 45 lb Manson Supreme with 100' of 5/16 HT chain and 150' of 5/8 double braid. The Delta used to be our primary anchor with a 23 lb Danforth as a secondary, but the Danforth was pretty useless in our bottom types of hard mud.

The Delta is a good anchor, but as good as it is the Manson is even better. Everything I read about Manson/Rocna rollbar type anchors is true. Without a doubt the best anchor I've ever used, sets instantly and it has held us fast even when we were on short scope in deep crowded anchorages. I always go 1 up in size, we spend most of our time on the boat on anchor and we like to sleep well!

Only thing I might do different is more chain, 150' on the Manson, mostly because the chain/rope transition with our winch is not pleasant and we often need 120-130' out to get a paltry 4 to 1 scope.

One other thing, shackles. We use Crosby zinc plated industrial shackles which have a breaking strength equal to the chain. Most of the marine ones are only rated at 1 Ton and they become the weakest link in your system. We also mouse the screw pins, always.

One of our skippers sailed his C34 from Vancouver, BC down to Mexico. Here's what he said about his gear:

[I]The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

This was our best upgrade.[/I]

Recommendation: get a new generation anchor (Rocna's had its problems with production quality, which seems to have been fixed, but if in doubt, get a Manson Supreme - the anchors pull you off the bow when you set them!), and use your Delta as a backup. AFAIC, a Danforth is good for only two things: stern anchor or kedge.

[B]Primary =[/B] Mantus, Rocna or Manson Supreme (Spade a close second to the other three)

[B]Stern, Kedge etc. = [/B]Fortress FX-16

[B]Spare anchor =[/B] Mantus or Spade (because they can be disassembled)

I own a LOT of anchors so have a good baseline on how they all work. I have put all of them through the paces with my 5000 pound digital load cell ebcause I don't trust "anchor tests". Here are SOME of them. Missing are the Delta, Danforth, steel Spade and a few others that I have duplicates of like the CQR....

From L to R: Spade (aluminum). Supermax, Oceane/Sword, Mantus, Rocna, Manson Supreme, CQR, Bruce, Fortress
[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/147686919.jpg[/IMG]

In my humble opinion, I find it difficult to give or accept advice regarding anchors, as I find that a given anchor will perform differently for different owners, even on the same boat and same general location. And I ignore anchor tests, as they don't seem to reflect the way anchors work in the real world. I boat in the northern Chesapeake Bay, where the bottom is primarily black sticky mud, occasionally sand.

My experience; when I bought a new '88 Catalina 30, I replaced the Danforth with an undersized 16lb Bruce. Used it for 9 years, it never dragged once, including when I got caught by a tropical storm in the Magothy River (sand and mud bottom). Took me the better part of a half hour to get it out of the bottom. I had a big Fortress out too, but the wind never put a load on it.

1997 I buy a new C36. Walking around the marina where I purchased it, I see many Deltas on the bow; so I buy a 35lb Delta. I could never, ever get that thing to set. I'd spend an hour setting and resetting that thing before giving up and dropping my Fortress and going below in embarrassment. When it did set, I never slept well, as it would plow the bottom if the wind came up. So I sold it and bought a 33lb Bruce. It has never, ever dragged once since 1999. Not once, anchoring in the same places I could never get the Delta to set.

Now this isn't a slam of the Delta, or a glowing recommendation of the Bruce, however, no matter how the new anchors are stated to be improvements, I can't see switching, because I've already got an anchor that has performed perfectly for 13 years (I'm anchored with it right now). That said, if I was going cruising in new areas, I would certainly add a 2nd anchor and one of the newer types would be at the top of my list. But it would take some time for me to gain the same confidence I have in my Bruce. I have to put my own experiences first.

Gary,

I find the Bruce to be the best of the old gen anchors. That said we were using our 33 pound Bruce on our Catalina 30, before we owned the 36.

One night in Winter Harbor on Vinalhaven Island we had a bad front come in. Peak gust I captured was 56 knots but it held pretty constant at nearly 40-45 for about 5+ hours.. We had 9:1 scope out and 5/16" all chain rode.

The anchor set well and held at wide open reverse throttle without issue. About 9:30 pm the anchor alarm starts going off. We are slooowly but steadily dragging. I dropped our Fortress and that stopped us cold. In the morning I dove on the Bruce. She was so deep in the mud I could not even feel it with my arm, DEEP!! The anchor never un-set or failed to remain set it just lacked the sheer surface area, in the soft mud, to hold our C-30 in the 5+ hours of 45+. When we bought the C-36 I refused to go to a 44 or 66 pound anchor to hold in the soft Maine mud we often come across.

For my own education I have duplicated that scenario with a 450HP twin screw fishing boat and my 5000 pound digital load cell. I have five anchors that I stop at 3000 pounds with because there is no sense in tearing out a deck cleat. Even in the softest mud I know of I can still get them to 3000 pounds.. Those are the Fortress, Rocna, Manson Supreme, Mantus and steel Spade. The rest of my anchors won't even break 1000 pounds except in a "blip" before they start dragging again. The CQR I can barely get to hold over 500 pounds in the same conditions. My testing includes two "new gens" the Supremax and the Oceane/Sword that simply don't perform like one would expect a new gen to perform like.. The Rocna, Manson Supreme and Mantus set instantaneously where with many of the others it takes multiple attempts. The Spades set fast but not like the Mantus, Rocna or Manson Supreme.

The only complaint I have with the Bruce is the lack of surface area. They set and re-set very well and were a great anchor IF you got a "genuine" version..

So for a Catalina 36 what size Rocna would you get?

[QUOTE=William Miller;15721]So for a Catalina 36 what size Rocna would you get?[/QUOTE]

A 35 is more than adequate and a 45 wold be a hurricane anchor. Don't limit yourself to just Rocna the Manson Supreme and Mantus anchor perform nearly identically though the Mantus sets like a freak of nature.

It once re-set on me while hauling it up when we were at nearly 1:1 scope breaking it free. Nearly yanked my buddy Tim off the bow. He bought one a few days later... The Mantus is the fastest setter, US made, and quite a good deal and it also comes apart for stowage....

I always like this video of just what a Manson Supreme can do..

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=luWJwTRkTUo&feature=fvwp"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=luWJwTRkTUo&feature=fvwp[/URL]

Looks like a rather exciting way to spend the night...:D

I'm not in any way questioning the fact that the Manson or one of the other new generation of anchors may be better than the Bruce I'm currently using. It's more that switching anchors is pretty low on my list of priorities, since I've had 100% success with my current setup. I see Mansons on the bow of quite a few sailboats in my marina, (along with Deltas, Bruces and Danforths) so people are obviously using them. Since I'm now retired, I have to prioritize my boat bucks and there are plenty of things that are not working as well as my anchor that will get my attention first. Note that I did install a Maxwell 1500 windlass, partly to save my aging back, and partly to allow for a larger anchor with more chain at some date in the future, when we finally are able to cruise in a wider area.

I do find it interesting that other people here on the Bay have success with their Deltas, whereas I did not. And they always test better in mud than the Bruce; however my results differ. The mud around here is soft on top, but usually hard, sometimes gray, clay like material underneath; that's probably what the anchor sets into. And it's shallow here, I'm in 7 feet and many places are less; rarely over 15 feet. So much different than folks in the Pacific Northwest or maybe even New England.

I appreciate your insight and the wide range of anchors you have used and tested. I'll surely be taking a close look at the Manson when the time comes, plus maybe a slightly longer anchor roller. First I'm going to 75 feet of chain and an up/down switch on the windlass; maybe the remote that was discussed recently. My back is thanking me already.:)

[QUOTE=plaineolde;15728]I do find it interesting that other people here on the Bay have success with their Deltas, whereas I did not. And they always test better in mud than the Bruce; however my results differ. The mud around here is soft on top, but usually hard, sometimes gray, clay like material underneath; that's probably what the anchor sets into. And it's shallow here, I'm in 7 feet and many places are less; rarely over 15 feet. So much different than folks in the Pacific Northwest or maybe even New England..:)[/QUOTE]

So true about different anchoring 'styles' give different results with the same anchor... Some folks drop going forward, some in reverse. Some drop 3:1 and back down hard, some drop all the chain in a pile and shut the engine off...:eek:
I know with my last boat (Newport 30) I had a 25lb Bruce and 60 ft chain (and 200' 1/2in) and it alwasy set soon and well and if it was going to blow over 30 I'd put down a kellet 20' over the rope.
With my C36 came a 35 lb CQR and 50' chain (I've added 100' more) and 5/8 rode - I had to readjust my anchoring 'style', because I had a heck of a time getting it to set in the same manner as I had with the Bruce.
I am tempted to sell it and get a Manson though...
BTW, I have a 30 lb Danforth spare with 50' chain and 150 1/2" rode)

Here's a video I shot during some of the anchor testing I did for myself. After finding some alarming differences I decided to actually make a few videos. That day there were two boat owners at the dock watching as I performed the hard sand setting observations. Those two individuals were CQR owners... They both bought Rocna's after seeing what I was doing...

In these tests everything is equal, same scope (infinite scope) except that I dragged the Rocna slightly faster, for some reason. The owner of Ronca's son admonished me for "dragging it faster", as if his product had already not shown itself to be a great setter...

It should be noted that this "intertidal sand" is about as hard as it gets and I can drive my Honda Pilot on it barely leaving tire prints.......

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGAckf69pE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGAckf69pE[/URL]

Well I got a price of 278.43 for a 33 lb Rocna and 394.86 for the Manson guess I will go with the Rocna my brother has the 73 lb for his 43 Selean and loves it

[QUOTE=William Miller;15758]Well I got a price of 278.43 for a 33 lb Rocna and 394.86 for the Manson guess I will go with the Rocna my brother has the 73 lb for his 43 Selean and loves it[/QUOTE]

Wow!!!! You would not even want to know what I paid for my Rocna 33. Suffice it to say it was almost 3X that price with shipping......

When we got our Manson, Worst Marine in Kingston wanted $933 for the 45 Rocna and $426 for the 45 Manson. It was an easy choice. Obviously the new owners at Rocna have woken up.

Does anyone know if Rocna has solved their QC problems? That was the primary reason (besides price) that I bought a Manson instead of a Rocna for Juniper. BTW, I agree with what's been posted above. The Manson is by far the best anchor I have used, over 35 years and 6 boats. It has never not held.

Can someone PLEASE post a pic of the Manson on the roller of a C36 MkII??
:)

I think someone at my marina has one on a C36. I'll be down there covering my boat for winter storage and see if I can find it (on the hard). I'll try to snap a pic if possible.

[quote=HowLin;15766]Can someone PLEASE post a pic of the Manson on the roller of a C36 MkII??
:)[/quote]

Howard, this thread:
[url]http://www.c36ia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1327&highlight=manson+ancho...

has a picture of our bow setup. The Manson is on the right, unfortunately it is partly obscured by the Delta. It is on a roller that Catalina Direct sells that is 6" longer than the stock one and there is no clearance problem to the hull. These are both 45 lb anchors, not 35.