Just bought a 1993 and it has a stbd list of several degrees, enough to make it slightly heads down when in the aft berth. Prev owner said he remembered it having a list.
After reviewing tankage impact on the list and considered loading all the heavy stuff to port, I still cant figure out how to load the boat to level it out other than some lead ballasting.
Has anyone heard anything done to a cat like this?
—
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
Stephen,
We all seem to suffer from a port list to some degree. I like many have upgraded my battery bank to four golf cart batteries and it has all but eliminated my list. I keep my wallet in my port rear pocket and the decrease in list may have to do its lightening as well.
There are several good write ups regarding this upgrade and if you look at the pictures posted on our site of Tom Sokoloski's mods, he also installed a starting battery in the compartment above and outboard of the battery compatment to further shift weight to starboard.
Steve
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
There is so much more stuff on the Port side, and so much more room to add stuff on the Port side also, that I am having trouble seeing the starboard list issue. My boat has 4 golf cart batteries to stbd and still no noticeable list either way, even with 1/4 full fuel tank.
I would say battery location is probably the only real easy option for moving weight around.
If you are racing that starboard list will help you be competitive off the start line though!
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
If you're listing to starboard, this could be the perfect time to add those lovely Hans Christianesque marble galley countertops that I've always drooled over. That oughta level her out. :D Seriously, though, I believe that weight higher up will have a more dramatic effect than weight down low due to leverage (if I'm thinking correctly). Try moving tools & spare parts to your port cabinets. If you're using the aft berth as a berth rather than a "garage", there's really not a lot of ways to add more weight to the port side. I'm trying to think what you might have stored or installed on the starboard side that would cause this.
Mike
Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA
[QUOTE=dejavu;7799].... Seriously, though, I believe that weight higher up will have a more dramatic effect than weight down low due to leverage (if I'm thinking correctly). Try moving tools & spare parts to your port cabinets..../QUOTE]
Actually, it's not up high that counts. If you want to level the boat (engineering term: adding moment) then you need to move weight as far as possible from the center. Specifically, move it orthogonal to an imaginary line between the center of buoyancy and the center of gravity. In real terms, you've got it exactly right, put stuff in the port cabinets.
G. J.
Greg Jackson
SV Jacqui Marie
2004 C36, MKII
tall rig, wing keel,
[QUOTE=SailorJackson;7801]Actually, it's not up high that counts. If you want to level the boat (engineering term: adding moment) then you need to move weight as far as possible from the center. Specifically, move it orthogonal to an imaginary line between the center of buoyancy and the center of gravity. In real terms, you've got it exactly right, put stuff in the port cabinets.
G. J.[/QUOTE]
Yes, GJ, you've got it right. I was thinking leverage and, as you say, the further outboard the better. Of course, in a hull, as we go outboard, we also naturally rise, so that's what got me on the "higher is better" train of thought. Were it, for example, a boxy pontoon boat, higher or lower wouldn't matter, just distance from center. Thanks for helping me clear up my thinking, I knew something about it didn't feel right.;)
Mike
Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA
[QUOTE=dejavu;7799] I'm trying to think what you might have stored or installed on the starboard side that would cause this.
Mike[/QUOTE]
THis is the key, I believe. Verry odd. Seems to have what appears to be a normal distibution of stuff loaded throughout the boat, with lots of stuff in cockpit locker.
I can't find anything so far that seems out of place to cause the tilt, but it is substanial enough to cause a drip coffee maker to be tilted too much and spill.
The boat has AGM batteries - 2 4D and one starting battery on sdbd and a Heart Freedom 20 mounted in the aft stbd locker in aft cabin, has the dinette config with the push down table, AC mounted centerline in aft section of dinette and SS hot water heater under fwd section of dinette. Holding tank (empty) is on port under center dinette. Ductwork is run on port which reduces port storage.
I would prefer not to carry a full holding tank as ballast!
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
Well, it would kill me to do it, but ultimately 200 pounds of lead bolted into the locker outboard of the dinetter would probably not affect the sailing qualities of the boat much and would should solve your problem. Just make sure they can't get loose!
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
I vaguely recall a movie where someone smuggled gold in the form of long cylindrical bars as the stanchions on their sailboat (painted over, of course).
That is just a thought if you happen to have a few hundred pounds of gold lying around.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Stephen,
I also had a slight list to stbd, but found that my mast was a little out of column. Make sure the mast is straight. Mine is almost perfect now; I think two 4-D batteries and a full stbd water tank might have a bearing on this. The head is usually empty, but the fuel tank is usually over half full. It seems to take me a while each year to get this boat tuned properly.
Good luck.
Richard
1994 C36 Tall Rig M1.5
Waukegan Harbor
Lake Michigan
Agree with Richard. Take a close look at the mast alignment if you have covered all of the other obvious items.
John Meyer
Hilbre
John Meyer
Hilbre
C36 MKll, Hull 2135
Cabrillo Marina, San Pedro, CA
gidday Stephen,
we have a 1993 C36, SR, WK, which had a starboard list. The mast was out of column so getting that perpendicular resolved much of the list. The other contributor appeared to be the amount of chain and the weight of the anchor carried in the anchor locker. By reducing the forward weight of the chain (previously all chain) we eliminated the bow down inclination of the hull and the remaining starboard list also miraculously disappeared...... our 1993 has forward water tank and the remaining tankage in the aft cabin; fuel to port, and two water in centre and starboard aft cabin lockers. Our battery bank is starboard side just forward of nav table. With this configuration there is little you can do to move weight around the vessel to improve trim. Check your forward weight as the turning moment of extra anchor and chain in the anchor locker may be all that needs to be considered to get you on the level.
Neville and Catherine Dunton-McLeod
Tauranga, New Zealand
S/V Memory
1993 C36, hull#1276; SR, WK
[QUOTE=windward1;7809]Stephen,
I also had a slight list to stbd, but found that my mast was a little out of column. Make sure the mast is straight. Mine is almost perfect now; I think two 4-D batteries and a full stbd water tank might have a bearing on this. The head is usually empty, but the fuel tank is usually over half full. It seems to take me a while each year to get this boat tuned properly.
Good luck.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! That gives me something to look at that makes sense. I will check it out next time.
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
[QUOTE=kapitan;7811]gidday Stephen,
we have a 1993 C36, SR, WK, which had a starboard list. The mast was out of column so getting that perpendicular resolved much of the list. The other contributor appeared to be the amount of chain and the weight of the anchor carried in the anchor locker. By reducing the forward weight of the chain (previously all chain) we eliminated the bow down inclination of the hull and the remaining starboard list also miraculously disappeared...... our 1993 has forward water tank and the remaining tankage in the aft cabin; fuel to port, and two water in centre and starboard aft cabin lockers. Our battery bank is starboard side just forward of nav table. With this configuration there is little you can do to move weight around the vessel to improve trim. Check your forward weight as the turning moment of extra anchor and chain in the anchor locker may be all that needs to be considered to get you on the level.[/QUOTE]
That gives me something to look at that makes sense. I will check it out next time. Sounds like our boats are nearly identical other than location. I do have an all chain rode and a 15KG Rocna on the bow, so that may contribure although my spare anchor is in the stern.
Thanks to all 3 of you for the mast suggestion!
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
That is a good point about the bow weight - trimming the boat bow down will dramatically reduce the form stabilityof the hull. This used to be done on purpose to race boats all the time when the rating rules would measure the stability of the boat. You often see early '80s race boats with the engine under the V berth for this reason.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Well guys, I finally got down to the boat all excited about adjusting the mast. First I sighted up the mast and determined that it was perfectly straight. Next, I used halyards to measure the distance from the top of the mast each side of the boat, they were within an inch. So that means that the mast is out of the running.
I spoke with my broker, who used to be a Catalina dealer, and the conclusion he had was that the boats were not "trimmed" from the factory and that lead was the appropriate solution to level the boat. I'm working to find about 100 pounds led to see what difference it makes, but I'm curious if anyone has used lead to trim their 36 and if so, which locations on port they chose to secure the lead.
Obviously, granite countertops are an elegant solution, but somewhat out of my price range for now.
I am open to any other suggestions,
thanks for all your input!
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
Well, I'm still voting for the marble counters, but short of that, I would think about rearranging your batteries. I have 2 27s in the pre-ordained space under the starboard seat, but my 2 31s are located in the port cockpit locker. If you could move even 1 battery to that location, it would help and give you more bang for your buck. You lose X lbs from the starboard side and gain X lbs on the port side, so you get a doubling effect (if I'm thinking this through correctly). Also, move any spares, tools or other heavy items to the port side lockers inside. Personally, I think moving the battery might do it. Though you're crowded with the ducting, we're just talking about running cable so you should be able to do that. I'd do just about anything before I loaded up a bunch of useless lead on my boat. Good luck.
Mike
Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA
Have you looked thoroughly around the starboard side to see if there is any 'useless lead' installed there that could be removed?
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Good idea on the battery, had not considered and I have AGMs - 2 4D and a group 27. Moving the 27 to the locker would definitely shift some weight.
So far I have not found lead on the stbd side in any obvious places, not under game table seats or on lockers above them, not in any locker I looked at. Seems like there is some inaccessible space under the game table lockers outboard of the seats that could be a candidate, but did not see any access to the space...
Has anyone seen lead installed on stbd? If so where have you seen it? I've owned the boat for a month, so it's not intuitive for me yet.
Gotta go diagnose a st50 wind problem and do some masthead work, have a great day.
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
[QUOTE=Nimue;7807]Well, it would kill me to do it, but ultimately 200 pounds of lead bolted into the locker outboard of the dinetter would probably not affect the sailing qualities of the boat much and would should solve your problem. Just make sure they can't get loose![/QUOTE]
I keep hearing this, over and over again through the years.
Batteries are made of, quess what???:):):):)
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
[QUOTE=LCBrandt;7930]Have you looked thoroughly around the starboard side to see if there is any 'useless lead' installed there that could be removed?[/QUOTE]
:confused:
So far I have not found lead on the stbd side in any obvious places, not under game table seats or on lockers above them, not in any locker I looked at. Seems like there is some inaccessible space under the game table lockers outboard of the seats that could be a candidate, but did not see any access to the space...
Has anyone seen lead installed on stbd? If so where have you seen it? I've owned the boat for a month, so it's not intuitive for me yet.
Stephen Noe
S/V Earendil, Oriental NC, USA
1985 Endeavour 42
[QUOTE=stu jackson c34;7935]I keep hearing this, over and over again through the years.
Batteries are made of, quess what???:):):):)[/QUOTE]
Stu's right. The lead you're looking for is in your batteries. Move one of the 4Ds to the port cockpit locker.
Mike
Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA