I planning to replace the shaft tube on my 1985 C36 and would like to know if anyone has replaced the shaft tube or could recommend a boring tool or other method to remove the shaft tube. The boat is located in Mexico with limited access to boat yards.
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Keith & Donna
SV: Victoria Dos
Hull #431
Sea of Cortez, Mexico
Keith, not sure what you mean by shaft tube. The tube is inside the hull, the hose is this material: [url]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=917608&highli...
The tube shouldn't have to be replaced, only the hose, which is double clamped onto the stern tube fiberglass where it enters the boat, and double clamped forward at the stuffing box.
Our C34 manual has a good diagram of that arrangement, so I guess so does the C36 manual.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Keith,
Have a look at recent issues of Mainsheet technical sections. I believe it was the spring issue tha had an article on stern tube replacement.
Steve
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
The shaft tube has worn do to misalignment of the engine and prop shaft rubbing on shaft tube. I read the article in Mainsheet of the very informative shaft tube repair. I want to remove this damaged shaft tube and replace with a new one I have purchase from Catalina Direct. Looking for help with boring out the shaft tube from the hull.
Keith & Donna
SV: Victoria Dos
Hull #431
Sea of Cortez, Mexico
Keith, now I understand. I looked at the CD website and read the mainsheet article.
It appears to me that the tube is glassed into the hull, right? Then it may be easier to simply make a series of cuts with a saw lengthwise (fore and aft) through the existing tube, rather than trying to bore it out which would require very close tolerances to avoid damaging the hull itself that is encapsulating the tube.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Keith,
I think this would be an excellent question for Gerry Douglas at Catalina Yachts. He (literally) designed our boats, and would know the best way to attack the problem.
Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT
Well, I've just discovered my boat has the same problem as Keith encountered. I had thought a leak in that area (which I briefly had this past summer) was from an aged shaft log hose, so I put it down a hose replacement on this winter's project list; but now that I've managed to withdraw the prop shaft, I discovered that a misalignment at some point eroded away the bottom of the shaft log tube itself to paper thin and in some spots not-existent -- see photo attached. Looks like the only thing keeping the ocean out was the pressure of the hose against the hull.
I haven't found a write-up on this page of how to install the replacement (Catalina Direct does sell the shaft tube replacement for around $50); if anyone has I'd love to hear how it was done. (I don't think attempting to repair the existing tube would be a good idea).
There was mention earlier in this thread about a Mainsheet technical article about this, but I haven't found it in the archives for the 36; perhaps it was a different size Catalina. Anyone know when that article was, and how one can access archived tech articles for other Catalinas?
By the way, I would imagine that the incidence of this problem might be more widespread than folks realize --- but one might not have much warning of it (since inspecting the condition of the tube is essentially impossible without removing the hose, which means removing the shaft, which means removing the flange, prop, and cutlass bearing).
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
Matthew,
I haven't done it myself, but I would imagine you would have to grind out the existing shaft tube, epoxy in a new one, trim as nescessary, and re-paint.
Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT
[quote=Chachere] Well, I've just discovered my boat has the same problem as Keith encountered. I had thought a leak in that area (which I briefly had this past summer) was from an aged shaft log hose, so I put it down a hose replacement on this winter's project list; but now that I've managed to withdraw the prop shaft, I discovered that a misalignment at some point eroded away the bottom of the shaft log tube itself to paper thin and in some spots not-existent -- see photo attached. Looks like the only thing keeping the ocean out was the pressure of the hose against the hull.
I haven't found a write-up on this page of how to install the replacement (Catalina Direct does sell the shaft tube replacement for around $50); if anyone has I'd love to hear how it was done. (I don't think attempting to repair the existing tube would be a good idea).
There was mention earlier in this thread about a Mainsheet technical article about this, but I haven't found it in the archives for the 36; perhaps it was a different size Catalina. Anyone know when that article was, and how one can access archived tech articles for other Catalinas?
By the way, I would imagine that the incidence of this problem might be more widespread than folks realize --- but one might not have much warning of it (since inspecting the condition of the tube is essentially impossible without removing the hose, which means removing the shaft, which means removing the flange, prop, and cutlass bearing).
[/quote]
This is can be repaired.
See the attached pic, detailing the fiberglass patch overlay arrangement.
The smallest patch, cut in the shape of the gap is only slightly larger the hole/groove. Then each additional patch of fiberglass is added to get the right thickness and strength.
Keep in mind that you must preserve the original dimensions and shape of the tube when you are cutting the patterns of fiberglass matte to be added.
I will add the full procedure as soon as I locate it. It's not on this iPad.
Mitch
1986 Catalina 36 MKI
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
I provided the article to Mainsheet, detailing the shaft-log tube repair.
I would be hesitant to try and remove the entire shaft log and glass in a new one.
First replace the motor mounts. Most people -like myself - don't realize that the root of the problem is improper shaft alignment. Brought on by poor engine mount tuning or in failure or fatigue in the rubber portion of the engine mounts themselves.
I opted to repair the existing tube by building up the bottom of the shaft-log tube with small pieces of glass and graduating up to larger pieces, glassed into the interior of the tube.
I had originally planned to replace the 1-5/8" tube, but the hurdle of alignment proved to be pretty intimidating.
The boat must be hauled out of the water for this repair as you must remove the prop shaft.
I have lots move pictures of the repair process if you need assistance.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to discuss further. I can PM you my phone number if necessary...
Good luck!
Mitch
1986 Catalina 36 MKI
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
[quote=MitchMan406] ...I would be hesitant to try and remove the entire shaft log and glass in a new one.
First replace the motor mounts. Most people -like myself - don't realize that the root of the problem is improper shaft alignment. Brought on by poor engine mount tuning or in failure or fatigue in the rubber portion of the engine mounts themselves.
I opted to repair the existing tube by building up the bottom of the shaft-log tube with small pieces of glass and graduating up to larger pieces, glassed into the interior of the tube....
[/quote]
Thanks so much -- these sorts of exchanges is what makes this Association so valuable (one of the reasons why we chose this model boat!).
Actually, one of the very first things we did when we bought our boat 5 years back was replace the mounts (per the survey recommendation); thus I suspect that this was damage from past mis-alignment by a prior owner at some point in our boat's history. Since few of us are original owners, we really have no way of knowing what lurks in that area -- unless we proactively take the whole thing apart (no small task!). I only discovered a leak there when I apparently nudged the hose a little while repacking the stuffing box. I now realize there was no "there" there!
Anyway, its good to know that it can be repaired without replacing the entire tube -- which seemed to me to bring a whole new set of challenges.
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
Following Mitchman's helpful writeup, I was also able to do this repair. Nasty confined area to do work in, but I think it came out fine in the end. (Again, a good reason to check your engine alignment and make sure the shaft isn't touching the tube anywhere -- this is a job you really should want to avoid having to do!)
Because the bottom of the tube was completely worn away, I used the old shaft log hose (slathered with mold release) as a form while I laid down the first layers of glass, then cut the hose away after the first layers cured, and continued building up the glass.
Its tricky to lay the layers of glass cloth down inside the tube. There was no way I could just wet it down with resin and then lay a dry piece in, because I couldn't figure out how to reach in with a brush to cover with resin. So I would saturate each piece in the resin mixing tub, and then wrap it around a piece of 1" dia EMT conduit (same diameter as the prop shaft), about 9: long, and poke it into the tube, I then rolled the piece of conduit around to try to press each layer down. Very messy work.
Its also tricky not overdoing the glassing, since its difficult to peer into the tube while working (a digital camera helps), and in the end I had to grind some of the new glass inside the tube back a little, using a Dremel tool with a wand attachment (brought back memories of a dental visit). (Which reminds me -- thinking about things you want to prevent, such as dental work -- to remind you all to check your shaft alignment... wait, did I say that already?)
Before, during, and after pictures shown below (in the middle picture, you can see the chunk of conduit lying to the right)
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
I am glad to help out!
This site has been a tremendous asset to me; I am happy to pay it forward.
Mitch
1986 Catalina 36 MKI
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
Hello All, After untold hours of searching the web I'm extremely relieved to find this post. I recently purchased an 87 Ericson 34 that we had to have hauled two days after taking ownership due to this same problem.
I will be attempting to re-glass the tube this weekend and would greatly appreciate any guidance from those who have done this repair as to exactly what materials you used and how the repair held up for you.
In addition to repairing the tube I will be installing new motor mounts , a new shaft and coupling as well as a PSS dripless shaft seal.
Thanks
John and Susanne in Chicago.
[quote=JSM]Hello All, After untold hours of searching the web I'm extremely relieved to find this post. I recently purchased an 87 Ericson 34 that we had to have hauled two days after taking ownership due to this same problem.
I will be attempting to re-glass the tube this weekend and would greatly appreciate any guidance from those who have done this repair as to exactly what materials you used and how the repair held up for you.
In addition to repairing the tube I will be installing new motor mounts , a new shaft and coupling as well as a PSS dripless shaft seal.
Thanks
John and Susanne in Chicago.[/quote]
My deepest sympathies! Obviously, a different boat may have a different set of obstacles, but I can tell you that the repair I did 2 years ago seems to be holding up just fine. My prior posts above give some of the procedures I used. Seth Mitchell ("Mitchman") did a very nice writeup on this procedure, which I used as guidance, if you PM me or Email me I'll forward it to you (he also was quite helpful in discussing this with me over the phone).
My hindsight observations: In removing the flange from the shaft, DO NOT -- as I did -- attempt to remove the coupling flange from the end of prop shaft via the technique of inserting a socket between the flange and the transmission coupling and using long screws gradually tightened to press it off. Here's why
- First of all, it took many, many hours for me to do this, working in a confined area;
- Secondly, you run the risk of bending the fingers on the transmission end of the coupling, which another C36 member recently experienced when a yard mechanic did just that, requiring the purchase of a replacement transmission (I luckily escaped that disaster, whew!), and
- Third, you'll want to make life easier for yourself (particularly if you are going the PSS route and will have to remove the shaft every 6 years to replace it) by buying a split coupling to replace it anyway (Buck Algonquin). So you might as well go the quicker route of using a grinder to cut a notch in the old coupling flange to remove it -- there's a Youtube of someone doing this out there that I saw (again, in hindsight). And anyway, you'll need to bring the shaft and new coupling to a prop shop to get it machined to fit square to make sure the prop is trued, and the old coupling would probably not fit properly. See Mainesail's excellent writeup on this at http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/new_shaft
Alternatively, Catalina Direct has a tool for removing the flange (http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/3613_844/coupler-puller-yanmar--universal-diesel.cfm) for $45;
Since you, JSM, are planning to get a new shaft and coupling anyway, you can just cut the old shaft, but I pass along the above observations for others who may want to reuse the existing shaft (as I did).
Good luck.
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
Thanks Matthew. After seperating the coupling I discovered that the shaft was only halfway into the coupling and heavilly scored from running on the packing nut. Cutting the shaft was an easy decision.
Also had an excellent consultation with Dr. Mitchman on the phone yesterday afternoon and thanks to both of you I'm beginning to feel a bit more optimistic about this depressing situation.
I will start installation of the motor mounts this evening and hopefully get the glass work done over the weekend.
Thanks again. Will keep you posted on the outcome.