What boat are you talking about? A mkI or a mkII? New from the factory? Repaired at some time in its life?

I think I have the same problem - MK1.

Darin,

Your surveyor's finding still isn't clear to me; which V-berth compartment was he talking about? Are you talking about water being trapped in the forward compartment beneath the V-berth, the compartment where the fwd water tank lives? Or are you talking about a water passage from the aft compartment under the V-berth, where the transucers are, that drains into the bilge?

I am away from my boat at the moment, so can't personally check the passages your surveyor might have in mind; but if memory serves, there ARE several holes under the V-berth that allow water to pass from one compartment to the next and then into the bilge. If no one else helps in the meantime, I will be going to my boat in the next few days and will try to find an answer. If you clarify which compartment we are discussing, I will even try to photograph the situation for you. In the meantime, until I or some other mkII owner can absolutely positively locate the hole(s) you're questioning, it's probably important to NOT drill anything.

Larry:

Are you saying you have more then one compartment in the forward section under the v-berth. I have a Mark I and it was totally open until I installed the forward bow water tank. In which I also have no limber hole as mentioned. I am curious now what you have and wished I had it blocked off in different sections. As I have always thought if I ever hit anything with the bow, I've got trouble.

Randy

Randy, I don't think you're in any worse trouble hitting anything with the bow than you were before you installed the water tank. The integrity of the bow/hull is still there, even if the bow water tank is full. At sea, you sacrifice some forward buoyancy by having all that weight there (in addition to anchor tackle weight), but that's why we customarily use our bow water first.

MkII boats have two compartments (as apparently Randy's mkI does, now that he has installed a bow water tank). The forward compartment simply defines the space for the plastic bow water tank, and this compartment does have a passage - on the boat centerline - that permits water to flow from the forward compartment aft, past its bulkhead, into the other (large) V-berth compartment...the one where the drawers, tipouts,and even the transducers reside. I believe it is acceptable to create a passage (note that I did not say "drill a hole") between the two compartments I am describing, PROVIDED that you do not drill into the hull layers OR into the water tank itself (assuming you'd be working from aft towards the bow).

How to accomplish that second condition, ie not drilling into the water tank, is a puzzler for me. My first approach would be to remove the wood drawer and tipout sets to empty out the aft compartment, and then try to gently use a Dremel to open a passage...use some technique that controls how far into the forward compartment you penetrate. If you go too far, you hole the water tank! The hole is about 1/2 inch in size, if I recall correctly.

Thanks Larry:

For some reason I was picturing something like a liner that maybe Catalina had added to the newer models.

Thanks again
Randy

Darin, I went to the boat yesterday to see what the situation was and I took the series of photos below.

The first photo shows an overall view of the V-berth area, compartments closed, for the benefit of Randy and others who want to understand how the MkII is layed out. The second photo shows the same area, but with the covers removed. The third photo shows the two compartments from a slightly different angle that has in view the water tank hose and, below it, the limber hole we're discussing. The fourth photo shows the back of the drawer set, the water tank hose and the limber hole. And finally, the fifth shot shows a close-up of the hole, with a role of my ever-handy 3M blue masking tape nearby to give a sense of scale.

It turns out that what you seem to be wanting to do should not be difficult at all. Subject to my disclaimer that YOU are responsible for any action you take on your boat, I think that if I were doing this on my boat, I would drill a small hole into the area shown, and then insert a wire to probe the void (hopefully, a void) fwd of the bulkhead, just to verify that there is nothing of significance there. Once verified, then I would drill out the hole to the desired size. It appears to be only a single layer of fiberglas at the hole location...quite thin. The tipouts probably don't need to be removed, but the drawer set, which is easy to remove, should come out to make access easier.

Personally, I would call Catalina first, to get their opinion. Can't hurt, right?

One advantage to NOT having a hole there, is that we have a nice "dry locker" in the bow, assuming we have no deck leaks, condensation, water tanks, A/C, or other potential water drip sources in the bow area.

As far as I know, we have only one other dry locker on MK1s: on the starboard side under the seat just forward of the small table, right?

By "dry locker" I mean that, within reason, no bilge water can slosh into this locker, because it is completely sealed off from the bilge by fiberglass, with no holes for electrical wires, plumbing hoses, etc.

Actually, Ben, it's not completely sealed off from the bilge. There is another limber hole beneath the drawer set, immediately aft of the transducers, that facilitates drainage to the bilge for the aftermost of the two compartments.

We don't need this area for storage at the moment, but if we did, we would store items in plastic bags. Nevertheless, this compartment - on our boat, at least - is dry. The residue you see trailing out of the limber hole in the photos is old dried stuff dating from before I sealed the water tank inspection ports with 3M 5200. Since sealing the tank inspection ports, we have had no further tank leaks.

Photos below show 1) Water tank sealed with 3M 5200 and the placard I places nearby to discourage anyone from opening the port and thus breaking the seal; 2) the sensor area below the bottom drawer; 3) look aft behind those sensors at the limber hole there. All forward compartments should freely drain into the bilge. If limber holes are not present, then they can be (carefully) made.

Yesterday I also found that the area under the V berth behind the front tank had a lot of water in it. I think it is the outlet fitting leaking, at least I am hoping that's it, there were a couple of beads of water up there and so it's obviously the suspect. But it surprised me that there is no connection from that area to the bilge, the water just lays in there. It also is apparent this thing has been leaking for some time due to the level of slime, etc., in there. Another thing missed by our surveyor. (and me, whoops!).

There should be limber holes at the low point of all of the under-berth compartments forward. It is possible one or more might have been missed in production, but this isn't high tech stuff, so it should be easy to drill/cut them in your boat.

I was thinking that might work Larry, I just need to take some time and figure out heights in there, it would be really bad if I bored a limber hole through the hull!!! That is a real risk because the area were the water is collecting is the location for the two sensors for the depth sounder and speed.

This is the thread that supports the contention that drilling/cutting in limber holes shouldn't be difficult. Study the photos in this thread. It'll be a lot like doing dental work with a portable Dremel. You'll probably need a mirror to work aft-wards of the sensors. Go shallow with the Dremel at first, just to verify that there is nothing abutting the fiberglass on the other side...there isn't. Then enlarge as desired. The fiberglass is fairly thin, so it will go fast.

A Dremel and 15 minutes and it's done, is my guess.

[Editor Note: I pulled Bud Street's thread into this thread to facilitate easier searching in future.]

Thanks Larry. You are a wealth of knowledge about what's on this forum, a human Google! And I should remember that the forum is searchable, truly amazing what's on here.

Caprice is a Mark I and does not have a water tank under the V birth. The part of the A/C unit that I believe is called an evaporator or condenser is located there. The water that drips out of this unit drains through a small hole in the back of the fiberglass partition into the bildge.

The reason I mention this is sometimes that little hole gets blocked up and the water does not drain out into the bildge. Before I go drilling holes I would really inspect that back fiberglass partition to see if there is already a drain and if it is just blocked up. I didn't know this hole was there until it became blocked up and I felt around the bottom of the partition and found it. It was small and almost invisable at the angle I was looking into the locker at.

Checked for a limber hole, there was none, now there is thanks to the trusty dremel grinder.

Was it much of a task to do, Bud?

No, pretty simple. Just pulled out all the drawers and did a couple of measurements to confirm how far down I needed to go to get below the cabin sole but stay out of the hull. Then I drilled a small 1/8" exploratory hole which was on target, then I drilled that out to about 3/8" and after I confirmed was well above the hull I drilled a 2nd 3/8" hole below that one and then I used the dremel with a steel cutting bit in it to join the two holes and then put a rotary rasp bit in it to widen it out and clean it up. Took about 10 minutes total I think. Dremel grinders, don't leave home without one!

Give me a Dremel, a Sawzall and an acetylene torch and there isn't much that could stand in my way. (Now there's a premise for a new television series.)

Hi, everyone. I recently discovered a similar stand of water in the forward compartment. I traced it down to...drumroll please....

the anchor locker drain.

Apparently the tube that drains the anchor locker to the outside of the hull is not well fiberglassed in, and thus, anytime it rains and signif water falls into the anchor well, it dribbles down the centerline of the hull in the forward berth and puddles under the above-mentioned drawer.

See attached pictures of the problem areas.

One pic shows where the water collects beneath the drawer. The other pictures show (upside down) the most forward part of the hull where the anchor locker is, but below the anchor locker in the cabin. You can see the drip line down the centerline of the hull.

Has anyone ever replaced this anchor locker drain tube? Coz that just got added to my to-do list. Lots of fun.

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;5358]This is the thread that supports the contention that drilling/cutting in limber holes shouldn't be difficult. Study the photos in this thread. It'll be a lot like doing dental work with a portable Dremel. You'll probably need a mirror to work aft-wards of the sensors. Go shallow with the Dremel at first, just to verify that there is nothing abutting the fiberglass on the other side...there isn't. Then enlarge as desired. The fiberglass is fairly thin, so it will go fast.

A Dremel and 15 minutes and it's done, is my guess.

[Editor Note: I pulled Bud Street's thread into this thread to facilitate easier searching in future.][/QUOTE]

Just to add one more twist to this thread, I had the same issue in Serenity, a 1993 Mark 1.5. No limber holes forward in either of the two locations under the V-berth. I followed all of the directions and was able to get it all straightened out, I thought. I had previously vacuumed out the bilge and although a reasonable amount of water drained out of the bow, no water appeared in the bilge.

Subsequent investigation found 6 gallons of water trapped in the bilge area forward of the mast. When I vacuumed that area out, I found what appears to be the forward end of a limber hole passage under the mast step to the bilge behind the mast. It is currently sealed off, as seen in these pictures, but you can see the outline of the end of a PVC tube under the gel coat. The aft end is open to the bilge behind the mast in the identical depth and centering.

My question is: Is this actually the missing drain from the forward bilge to the after-mast bilge, and is there any reason I should not cut it open to connect the bilges for proper drainage?

Has anyone got a limber hole in the forward bilge?

Stephen,

If it was me, I would SUGGEST checking one more time that the bilge area aft of the location in your second picture is as clean as possible and then creating a reasonable sized hole (say 3/8-1/2") in the lower section of the tube that appears to be glassed over. Then I would put a known quantity (say a gallon) of water in this area and verify that if gets to the main bilge.... verify that all or nearly all the water arrived in the main bilge. Its kind of an anal approach but removes any questions. Once you a sure the new hole does in fact connect to the main bilge, open the opening to the inside diameter of the tube in the picture.

[QUOTE=iamav56;16457]Stephen,

If it was me, I would SUGGEST checking one more time that the bilge area aft of the location in your second picture is as clean as possible and then creating a reasonable sized hole (say 3/8-1/2") in the lower section of the tube that appears to be glassed over. Then I would put a known quantity (say a gallon) of water in this area and verify that if gets to the main bilge.... verify that all or nearly all the water arrived in the main bilge. Its kind of an anal approach but removes any questions. Once you a sure the new hole does in fact connect to the main bilge, open the opening to the inside diameter of the tube in the picture.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your suggestion! After heading home, I realized that I could also verify by measuring the passage depth and regularity via the limber hole at the forward end of the bilge behind the mast...oh well, something else for the list.

Stephen, it almost certainly is the limber hole that drains the forward bilge. I like your past procedure of 'testing' it with an exploratory drill first.

I agree. There needs to be a limber hole there under the mast step. When I had my mast step replaced with pure fiberglass, we put a limber hole there, to replace the one we saw at the base of the wooden mast step (which was dry-rotted).

If you don't have one, the forward keel bolt will stay underwater...and that would be oxygen-starved water, which is corrosive to stainless steel.

Also the stagnant water makes a stinky mess after a while.