I haven't installed padeyes, but I do run webbed jacklines from bow to stern, inside the shrouds, when going offshore. See photos below.

We, too, use the existing cleats with flat webbing. I tie a bowline through the hole in the bow cleat and just do a "standard" wrap of the aft cleat with the webbing.

We use flat webbing from the port bow cleat inside the shrouds to the stbd midship cleat (moved all the way aft), and opposite for the other side.

The crossing at the bow is my attempt to keep the jackline nearer the centerline of the boat, which probably has only a small effect. The midship cleat when full aft is far enough to get back into the cockpit where I have padeyes at the base of the companionway bridge deck. When at the helm, I clip in to substantial hard points by the railing.

I am a firm believer that you do NOT want to have to be trying to find anyone who fell overboard.

I like to make my jacklines about a foot short of the attachment points (I use the bow and stern cleats on my boat) and have a sewn loop at each end. I luggage tag them (pass tail through loop) to the bow cleat, and then tension them with a lashing of 1/8 or 3/16 single braid spectra at the aft end, usually passed through about 4 or 6 times. Tieing knots in webbing always seems a bit suspect to me. This is what we have done on most of the 'big boats' I race on as well.

Nimue,

I'm sure that your method is very secure. I don't know about tying knots in webbing either.

I have a sewn loop at the bow cleat like yours, but then I do the figure eight cleat hitch multiple times around the after cleat and 'lock' it on every turn and it seems very secure. Do you consider that a 'knot'?

Deising, I'm sure that works fine and I'm sure I have done it that way in the past, it is just a bit messy if you need to tie something else on back there for some reason.

That is a good point.

I must be missing something in the description of the hooking on process.

With my webbed jacklines run from bow cleat to stern cleat, once tethered on, I don't need to hook on in the cockpit. My tethers are long enough to allow me to descend the companionway steps (backing down, not stepping down facing forward as I often do in calm water) while being still tethered, and only when below at the bottom of the steps do I disconnect the tether from the harness. Then I simply leave the unused tether hanging in the companionway. When time to go into the cockpit once again, I tether on first, and then climb the steps into the cockpit.

Larry and Duane,
Both of you mentioned that you run the jacklines inside the shrouds. I understand the reasoning that you want to keep the jacklines as close to the centerline of the boat as possible. But....When going to the bow, I have always wanted to keep both hands attached to the boat at all times, be it a handrail or a lifeline or whatever. If you run the jacklines inside the shrouds, and you try to go forward of the mast, you have to stop at the mast, lift up the lazy sheet, duck under it, and then go forward. I have always run the jacklines outside the shrouds, and outside the sheets. I always go forward on the windward (high) side of the boat. Going forward this way, I do not have to duck under the lazy jibsheet, and I can always have two hands attached to the boat. Am I missing something in my approach?

three questions:

1. Where did you get your jacklines - any special kind of webbing?

2. What tether did you use and where did you find it?

3. This seems probably be obvious but I'd sure like to learn from others first - what tips for single handing the C36? What worked, what didn't, special work arounds? If we got the best of ideas perhaps it could be posted elsewhere on the site.

Many Thanks....

When I have a crew aboard I use a jack line because there is someone aboard to get me back in the boat. When I sail single handed I do not use a jack line because there is no way I can get myself back in the boat and would drown. A friend of one of my sailing buddies drowed when he fell overboard wirh a 6' teather which was to short to reach the transon. I feel I have a better chance of survival by wearing a PFD and hoping someone will come to help me out even if I am in the water all night.

After reading all the replies on this subject I was thinking of trying out a long theather fastened to the stearn and trying to pull myself back to the boat and up the stearn ladder. I would have to rig the stearn ladder with some sort of release that can be reached from the water. Of course when I try this method out I will have a couple of strong men on board in case it doesn't work.

Mike

I, too, am interested in the relative merits of running jacklines inside vs. outside the shrouds. Comments?

Tom and John,

Sorry for the late reply. I run the jacklines inside the shrouds and inside the sheets and always try to go forward on the high side. Tom is right that you have to duck under the lazy sheet, but I have never felt that maneuver added any appreciable risk. I could be wrong.

Keep in mind for my case that I have only had to do this on a few occasions, so my comments don't hold as much weight as someone who has done this dozens of times or more.

Mike's comments are what prompts me to try to keep from falling over the lifelines. If I fall, I want the jacklines close the the center of the boat to keep me on the boat if at all possible.

I second Duane's last comment about the jacklines close to the center of the boat and his reasoning.

If I have to go forward and it is at all rough I crawl on hands and knees until I get where I'm going, I never walk upright. Once out of the cockpit I stay off the side decks, I don't want to be anywhere near the lifelines unless I have to be there for some reason. On the 28 in short, steep Lake Ontario waves that was an essential strategy to keep from getting launched off the deck. Maybe on the 36 it won't be as important but I suspect I won't change the way I do things.

I spent some time on the US Sailing Safety at Sea Comm. Mostly as an interested observer. I remember a study that the Mids at USNA did on the strength of stanchions and lifelines. I don't have the pictures anymore but I distinctly remember how the stanchions bent outward and deformed, providing little, if any, support for a body traveling across the deck.

Keep your jacklines as close to centerline as possible and your tethers short enough to keep you on the boat. Be safe.

[QUOTE=by many others;3945]
Keep your jacklines as close to centerline as possible and your tethers short enough to keep you on the boat. Be safe.[/QUOTE]

I'm confused. Think about the routing. The wide sidedecks of our boats is a very good thing. So I leave the cockpit. Just forward of that is the dodger, so I'm already on the side deck. My dodger, as all should, has side rails for handholds. If the jacklines were literally kept to the "centerline" of the boat, I'd then have to step UP onto the cabintop. That makes little sense to me, unless I'm misinterpreting what folks are suggesting about "in the center." In two steps I'm past the dodger and with one hand on the top lifeline the other reaches the aft lower. If the jackline was inside the shrouds, I would then have to step up on the cabintop to go past the shrouds. I prefer to continue to go forward outboard of the shrouds. Stepping inside the shrouds seems harder to go forward. It appears to me that the easiest route is to have the jackline outside the shrouds.

Then the discussion is "easier" vs "safer". When it is even slightly nasty, I do not want to be anywhere near the lifelines, I want the tether to keep me inside the lifelines.

Going overboard is the worst thing that can happen, whether you are on a tether or not you may well drown. There are many recorded instances of people being drowned on a tether because they couldn't get back aboard, even with someone else on board to assist. If you're walking on the side decks tethered to a jackline on the side deck and you have enough tether to get to the base of the mast you are one heave of the boat from your demise.

I don't see the problem of getting onto the cabintop, I don't step up onto the cabintop, I crawl up onto it. I keep my weight low, crouch until past the dodger, shorten my tether to 6' and then crawl onto and along the cabintop. Yes, there's some lines to be aware of, but I'd far rather deal with that than be on the side decks.

The wide side decks are a treat at anchor or in calm weather, but I avoid them as much as possible under way. I don't trust lifelines, I won't even let passengers lean on them.

I never even tried to route the jacklines outside the shrouds and use them, so I don't know the relative ease between the two methods. I originally and subsequently routed the jacklines as close to the centerline with the philosophy that I want to be as far from the lifelines as I reasonably can and still have a secure handhold. I, too, crawl if it gets nasty.

This is a good discussion. I value all the input.

This is a very interesting discussion, something I've always been curious about. I agree with the observations about the perils of going overboard and being dragged along while attached to a tether, particularly while single-handed. I favor running the jacklines inside of the shrouds (to get them as inboard as possible and to use the shrouds as holding points for the jacklines), and to attach to the jackline with a 3 foot tether (on a tether unit with 3 and 6 foot tethers), if possible. I think I would have a better chance of staying close to the deck if I went over. I also subscribe to the crawling approach!

I attached a padeye through the deck aft of the mast (secured by a stainless backing plate belowdecks), to provide an attachment point along the centerline for a tether if I have to work around the mast. I toyed with the idea of running the jacklines through this padeye, somehow, to keep the jacklines more inboard, but I decided I didn't want to risk fouling up the running rigging that runs along the coach roof from the base of the mast to the cockpit.

Also, to aid getting back on board while singled-handed, I rigged up a system to be able to lower the ladder on the back of the boat from the water. if necessary. I believe that this is easier on the Mark II boats--mine is 1991 MK "1.5" model with the small walk-through transom. This assumes, of course, that I could get to the transom--the whole point of this discussion.

All said, however, I dread the thought of going overboard, even with a jackline and tether. Seems like there is so much that could go wrong.

Good discussion.

--Nelson

A point that no one has mentioned yet, and that I deem important, is that when you consider the relative security of a crawl from the cockpit to the foredeck, with the jacklines inboard you're never more secure along that route than you are for the 6 to 8 foot section that you're *inside* the shrouds.

Forward of the foremost shroud, though, is really risky territory. "Dragons Be Here," the ancient maps said.

What length jackline is sufficient for our boats? I'm looking at an 11 meter (36') jackline; will that be long enough (attached to bow and stern cleats) or do I have to step up to 40'?

Thanks,

David

I have midship cleats on a track, so I run the cleats as far aft as possible and attach the after end of the jacklines there. While in the cockpit, I have 4 fixed points to tether in, and then if we have to leave the cockpit to go forward, we clip onto the jackline right where we exit the cockpit.

One benefit to that method is that the jacklines don't need to be as long. Besides, we have so much SS tubing and gear along the sides of or cockpit that we couldn't move along the coaming if we wanted to.

Mine are 35' and they are frankly too long.

They ought to run from the bow cleat to somewhere mid cockpit - I'd like mine to tie off to the toe rail at the 'drain' port just forward of the wheel but they are too long for that. I'm going to take them in to my sailmaker and have him shorten them and restitch the loops this spring.

If I'm remembering correctly (at midwinter, boat tucked away under the cover), we have the 30' jacklines sold by WM, which have loops at both ends. We wrap one end around the most forward of the stanchions of the stern pushpit, pulling it through the loop on the bitter end, and after running it forward (outside the shrouds) it snugly fits over the bow cleat.

So you don't run them aft all the way to the stern cleats? That's where I was thinking the natural attachment point might be.

QUOTE=Nimue;16815]Mine are 35' and they are frankly too long.

They ought to run from the bow cleat to somewhere mid cockpit - I'd like mine to tie off to the toe rail at the 'drain' port just forward of the wheel but they are too long for that. I'm going to take them in to my sailmaker and have him shorten them and restitch the loops this spring.[/QUOTE]

Believe the theory of the jack lines and the harness teather is not to have you dragged behind the boat. So the end of the jackline should end forward or midway in the cockpit so that the teather keeps you in the cockpit.

Having said that my jacklines are also too long. I am planning on adding a padeye to run through allowing me to reach the stern/helm without disconnecting the teather, but allowing me to travel to the bow.

[QUOTE=deising;3909]Nimue,

I'm sure that your method is very secure. I don't know about tying knots in webbing either.

I have a sewn loop at the bow cleat like yours, but then I do the figure eight cleat hitch multiple times around the after cleat and 'lock' it on every turn and it seems very secure. Do you consider that a 'knot'?[/QUOTE]

Coming from a climbing background I've trusted my life to knots in tubular webbing countless times. Frost knots are very secure and destructive testing has shown the tubing will fail before the knot.

We always tried to avoid "nylon on nylon" ie tube webbing crossing webbing or a line. Line on line will chafe through webbing very quickly, so I'd be more concerned about lashing around a loop of webbing that I would be about a knot.