Engine Hard Starting

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ajcastagno's picture
ajcastagno
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Engine Hard Starting

Hey Guys,

The last two times I've started my engine, I've had to crank it for maybe 10-15 Revolutions.... seems like fuel is not getting to it.... In the past it would kick on the first or second revolution.... The weather is cooler and I always use the glow plug for about 5 seconds or so before the start button. But we used it all last winter and cranked right away.... after running for a bit and shutting down... it cranks first bump of the starter.... it seems like fuel is not primed and needs to suck it up to the IP..... Nothing has changed batteries are at correct charge.... Fuel is just under 3/4 tank... the engine is a recently installed M25XPB with only about 140 hours on it..... any thoughts?

Thanks,
Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

Nimue's picture
Nimue
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On my engine at the moment I have one dead glow plug and I have to 'glow' it for a good 30 seconds or it doesn't start. Not an issue when the engine is already warm.

Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada

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William Matley
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Posts: 167

Check your glow plug solenoid.

Bill Matley
Duncan Bay Boat Club
Cheboygan, Michigan
Lakes Huron, Michigan,
Canadian North Channel
"Spirit of Aloha" Hull #1252

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ajcastagno
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Thanks for the suggestions guys... will check glow plug system as suggested.

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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Capt. Sam
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If glow plugs check out, next you might check the fuel pump. Mine starts running as soon as the ignition key is switched to on.
My thinking is that I think our engines will run without the pump, but not easily start?

Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida

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mike37909
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I think I read somewhere you have to glow it for 45 seconds. I have reduced that time to 30 seconds in the summer but if it is cold maybe increase it.

Catalina 36 MK1
1984 Hull #306

 

MarkM
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Posts: 33

Had to replace my lift pump last year. It would not start with a bad pump. Lucky I was in the slip when it happened.

Mark Middleton
S/V Lunacy
SW Michigan
2002 C36 MK II TR WK M35B

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Chachere
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Posts: 826

[QUOTE=William Matley;20005]Check your glow plug solenoid.[/QUOTE]

Don't know if this is the case for newer C36s, but certainly older ones didn't come equipped with glow plug solenoids. We added one to ours, and it dramatically reduced the time we needed to activate the glow plugs for a cold start (say, from 45 seconds down to about 10). Its an easy and inexpensive modification, and there's a write-up about how to do this in the upgrades section:
[url]http://www.c36ia.com/node/916[/url]

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

BudStreet
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Posts: 1127

Mk IIs will start and run fine without a fuel pump, if they're above half full or so they siphon strongly. At least ours certainly does. But OP has a Mk I and they shouldn't be able to do that due to fuel tank location difference.

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ajcastagno
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Yes this is a MKI (Hull 22) Interesting point on Fuel... that is one of the other variables.... it's probably the lowest the fuel has been since I've owned the boat. Where is the fuel pump located? Is it electrical? I am traveling or I would look up the info directly in my manuals.

Thanks,
Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

BudStreet
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Posts: 1127

If it's original it should be a canister type pump mounted on the rear of the engine, starboard side up high. It could have been changed for one of the newer plastic pumps which are small square black plastic but should be in the same area. If it is working it should make a ticking/clicking sound when you put power on it.

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Nimue
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[QUOTE=bstreet;20024]If it's original it should be a canister type pump mounted on the rear of the engine, starboard side up high. It could have been changed for one of the newer plastic pumps which are small square black plastic but should be in the same area. If it is working it should make a ticking/clicking sound when you put power on it.[/QUOTE]

Or, on my 1983 boat the fuel tank is under the dinette along the forward edge of the galley, and the fuel lift pump is under the outboard side of the dinette (bottom of the U). I can hear it clicking from the helm when I turn the ignition on.

Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada

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2sailaway
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[QUOTE=Nimue;20030]Or, on my 1983 boat the fuel tank is under the dinette along the forward edge of the galley, and the fuel lift pump is under the outboard side of the dinette (bottom of the U). I can hear it clicking from the helm when I turn the ignition on.[/QUOTE]

My engine was hard starting last year so I replaced the engine:) I have the old pump still if you or anyone else needs a spare! Send me a message if interested.

Larry Robcke
MKl Tech Editor S/V  L' Amante #319, 1984 C36
Sailing Long Island sound and the Hudson River

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Chachere
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[QUOTE=Nimue;20030]Or, on my 1983 boat the fuel tank is under the dinette along the forward edge of the galley, and the fuel lift pump is under the outboard side of the dinette (bottom of the U). I can hear it clicking from the helm when I turn the ignition on.[/QUOTE]

Same here on our '86.

The symptoms described by the OP, Tony, do seem entirely consistent with a glow plug issue, not a fuel supply issue, no? Otherwise, why would it make a difference if the engine was cold or hot? Its not as if once the engine has been sitting for a while the fuel is going to drain back out of the reservoirs in the fuel filters and leave the engine starved...

Frankly, using the glow plugs for only 5 seconds, as Tony writes he is doing, just doesn't seem enough. Before we installed a solenoid for our glow plugs, we needed to run the glow plugs a good 30 to 45 seconds before hitting the starter when our M25 was cold (this seems consistent with other users).

Thus, it seems to me that the entire problem here is simply not holding down the glow plug button long enough; I'd suggest trying that before looking a fuel supply issues. Certainly, cranking the engine for long period to get a start is NOT a good idea, given that the water-lift muffler can fill up with raw water and back up into the cylinders (If the engine doesn't start right away, make sure to drain the muffler before trying again)

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

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ajcastagno
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Posts: 33

Great replies guys... I will check the glow plugs this weekend.... Matt, yes strange... but it has always started first crank even in weather in the 30's with a 5 second hold... it is definitely acting very different now...

Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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