Normal to need Winch on furler?

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plebel's picture
plebel
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Normal to need Winch on furler?

I couldn't furl my 140 genoa without the winch yesterday.  Is that normal for a boat this size in a stiff wind?  Not enough backstay tension?

We were out yesterday on a cold, clear day with a nice breeze.  Didn't put up the main because my mastmate is currently in the sail track while I replace the Gwind transducer.  But with the (est.) 140 genoa, we got up to a good 6 knots both up and down wind.

Obviously my experience is limited to smaller sailboats and gentle summer breezes.  This is my first winter in this boat. 

Thanks
Paul

 

Paul & Ann   -   
"Freestyle"   -   
1985 C36 #454   -   
North Puget Sound, WA

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mogline
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I assume you mean that in order to furl your 140 you put the furling line on a winch and cranked it in with a handle.  You should not have to do this and applying that much pressure could cause some serious problems.  It is ok to use a winch to snub the furler line (assuming you don't have a ratcheting block for that purpose), but not to use the winch to crank it in.  You probably need to completely ease the genoa sheet in any sort of breeze before furling, but unless you are in very high winds you should still be able to furl just by pulling in the furling line.  If furling is difficult make sure the bearings are clean and in good condition.  Depending on your furler, some lubrication may be in order.  Halyard tension can also affect performance of some models.

Mike Ogline
SHADOW #1831
2000 SR/WK
Deltaville - Chesapeake Bay

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TomSoko
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Paul,
I agree with Mike.  Unless a sudden squall of 30-40-50 kts of wind comes up, you should be able to furl the 140 by hand.  It's too easy to start cranking on the winch and not notice something that is holding up the process, and then gear gets broken.  In addition to what Mike suggested, you should also check to make sure the jib halyard is routed thru a "keeper" on the mast, just below the masthead sheave.  Here's an example:
http://www.rigrite.com/Furling/Halyard_pullback.html
A keeper prevents the halyard from wrapping around the furler and really messing things up.
 

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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plebel
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Thanks Mike & Tom, and Happy New Year.

As I said it was quite a stiff wind.  I'm guessing at least 20 knots.  In previous, gentle summer sails, I've had 2 issues furling the genoa.  1) The halyard wrapping around the furler. ( I don't think I have that Halyard pullback device Tom).  2) If my adjustable backstay releases tension (slow leak), the furler/forestay will sag/ bow under it's weight making it hard to turn.  Presumably the weight of headwind would exacerbate that problem.

Concerned that the halyard was indeed wrapping around the sail, I had my wife release all tension from the halyard at the cockpit so that it would be free to keep wrapping, as needed, until I got back to port.

Being the only "sailor" of the five of us adults, I was too stressed/relieved to investigate, when we got back to port.  Everyone was too cold and wanted to go home!( I on the otherhand was sweating with bloody knuckles from the effort!)  I forgot to even just glance up to see how much halyard line was wrapped around the furler... if any.

But the mastmate is still up.  The Halyard pullback device will be looked into.

Thanks for the advice.

PS,,, First thing when I got home was to order 1" nylon jacklines, which I'd been procrastinating on.  Turns out, that just having the harness/lifejacket and tether is useless without jacklines!  I'm fit & nimble for my age, but it's still spooky being up at the bow in those conditions.

 

Paul & Ann   -   
"Freestyle"   -   
1985 C36 #454   -   
North Puget Sound, WA

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TomSoko
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Paul,
I think jacklines are a GREAT idea!  Having the halyard wrap around the forestay is the exact reason why the winch shouldn't be used to furl the jib.  Good thinking to release the halyard completely to get back to port.  I'm pretty sure you hit the nail on the head as to the reasons the jib was hard to furl.  Sagging forestay and halyard wrapping would definitely cause the effort to furl the jib to skyrocket!  I think you'll find the furling a lot easier after you install a halyard pullback device, and not have to worry about the halyard wrapping.  You can also experiment with halyard tension to see how much would make the furling easier.  Too much or too little make it harder.  Hope this helps.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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deising
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Another minor thing that helps in general is to use larger cordage for the furler so that you can get a better grip. I use 3/8 double-braid and removed the core for all but the 30 feet that comes back to the cockpit. There is still plenty of strength in the cover of good quality line.

In case it isn't obvious, removing the core for the portion that wraps on the furler drum is needed so that the thicker line can still fit on the drum.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

montyscat
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Theres a couple of times i felt i needed to winch my 155 headsail in but if i turned into the wind just a little it was easier plus i got a tight wrapup for my sail

Rickymontgomery

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HowLin
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Of course halyard tension can sometimes be an issue also..  not too tight, not too loose...

---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----

--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----

--- 1999  C36 MkII  #1776 M35BC ---

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plebel
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Posts: 90

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions.

I finally got back to the boat the other day.  I couldn't find a thing wrong with the furler & genny.  The halyard had NOT wrapped around when I used the winch in strong wind the week before.

It was calm, so I completely unfurled it there at the dock, and neatly re-furled it, with no resistance at all.  Yes the top furler "drum" attached to the hayard does want to catch sometimes.  So at the very least I need to give it a good dose of Sailkote. 

And I'll keep in mind the halyard pull-back device.  What's a few more holes in the mast :-)

Paul & Ann   -   
"Freestyle"   -   
1985 C36 #454   -   
North Puget Sound, WA

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