WiW Fair Price of a 1986 C36 Tall Rig

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Pfiji
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WiW Fair Price of a 1986 C36 Tall Rig

Hello all!

I'm toying with upgrading to a C36 from my current O'day 272LE.  A friend lived on a C36 on the West Coast for a couple years and highly recommended it for my next move up (skip 2', let's just jump to where we want to be in one step).  I found the boat in question in it's cradle a couple years ago (I have a job that brings me in and out of marinas on a regular basis) and know for a fact it hasn't been in the water since 2014 (or possibly longer).

Low and behold after many attempts to look at the boat and make an offer, a for sale sign was posted on it.  The price looked perfect at $11,000, but upon closer inspection, this is a boat that hasn't seen the water in at least 3-4 years, and it looks like the owner was on the "deferred maintenance" plan which is going to cost somebody a lot of money to catch up on eventually.  

 

The engine looks good/well taken care of.  The interior, though original isn't in bad shape.  There's clearly evidence of water leakage around the mast, which to me is to be expected.  Little things like a non-functioning water heater, no refer, etc aren't deal breakers to me.  What concerns me is the general dilapidated state of all the lines, the leaky companionway with plastics bags jammed in it as a solution, and the moss growing in random funky spots on the woodwork up top.

It just didn't sit well with me.  I had $11,000 in my pockets when I climbed on the boat yesterday afternoon.  And then didn't make an offer when I started looked closer.

Sail inventory is two sets, one original, one newer but the owner couldn't give me the appx age.  Electronics are dated.  No chart plotter.  No masthead wind.  Loran C (wow, I haven't seen one of those still on a boat in years).  Auto pilot but I'm not sure if it was/is functional and judging by the rest of the electronics finding parts is probably difficult. 

Gel coat had the expected spider cracking all over for a 30 year old boat.  Then was completely missing chunks around the traveler bases.  I didn't bring a moisture meter with me.

I'm struggling with this one and trying to figure out what the boat is really worth.  Is it worth an $11,000 gamble?  I know you can spend $30k+ on a C36 and run in to issues too, so there's always the other side of the coin.

 

Thanks for you time!

pkeyser's picture
pkeyser
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What's a survey cost? A $1,000? The worst that can happen is you spend $1000 and save $10,000 if there are too many warts. The upside is you effectively spent $12,000 for a boat you can live with. 

Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B

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Anchorsaweigh
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Posts: 30

Pfiji,

Run away, unless you're interested in, or have time for, a project.  Sure, you could dump a grand into a survey. But, the only thing it will confirm is that, for whatever reason, the PO neglected the boat.

If I'm plunking that much money down on a survey, I at least want to start with a boat that looks like it was well looked after.

Just my evershumble opinion.

Cheers

Bob

Lazybones - 1999 Catalina 36 MkII, M35B, #1731
E. Greenwich, RI
 

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mrmac
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Posts: 28

Some advice that I was given was to buy the best boat that I could comfortably afford - something that had been really well maintained. Unless you prefer working on a boat more than sailing her, you might want to follow that advice. On a boat that age that wasn't maintained, everything will need replacing or fixing, and when you are through, you'll still have a 30 year old boat.

Anchor rode, windlass, depth meter, GPS, engine, running rigging, standing rigging, thru-hulls, wiring, stove, sails, cushions, water system, gel coat, core (moisture level), chart plotter, shaft, prop, furling, canvas, lifelines, steering, clutches, batteries, switches, holding tank, VHF, battery charger, autohelm, blisters, keel, hoses and clamps, ports, stainless, wood interior, stove, leaks, lights (running, anchor, steaming, interior), transmission, fuel system, hull and deck joint, stuffing box, refrigeration, accumulation of bottom paint - and much more!

You can survey a lot of that yourself (blisters disappear after being out of the water).  If you like her, you can continue the process, but you still won't have a swim platform, etc., etc. Even after being surveyed, will you trust her?

We spent more on Southern Comfort than we did on any of our houses except the one we are living in, and I've never had a day of buyer's remorse.

Dick

 

 

Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay

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Chachere
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[quote=mrmac]..  you'll still have a 30 year old boat.
...
but you still won't have a swim platform, etc....
 [/quote]
Of course, 30+ year old boats can still be good boats.   Indeed, Don Casey, author of "This Old Boat",  currently has his 1969 Allied Seawind 30 up for sale for $35K, after owning it the past 44 years.
And swim platforms can be added (see www.catalina36.org/comment/55328#comment-55328 )

 

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

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mrmac
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"Of course, 30+ year old boats can still be good boats."

No argument.  Particularly if they were maintained by Don C.  Rather than swim ladder, I should have said walk through transom. Catalina had only been making the 36 for about 4 years when this one was built, and they made many improvements over the years, including increasing the HP.

My point was more of an "all things considered" judgment.  He's looking at an old boat that has been neglected.  If he's handy and wants a big project and the survey isn't a deal killer, he could end up with a fun boat.

The URL is to a review of the Catalina 36 by Jack Horner (BoatUS, 2012).

http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/sail/catalina36.asp
 

 

Southern Comfort #1881
Tall rig, Wing Keel
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay

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Pgutierrez
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Random thoughts:  How much time do you have for all the work you describe? And the surprises to come.  Do you have the skill set to do the work correctly? What value do you put on your time?  I think you can buy a MUCH better same age Catalina 30 for a few thousand dollars more $15-20 K) and save yourself much aggravation and actually do some sailing.  (Yes, I know the boat you are looking at is a 36 foot Catalina).  Keep in mind keeping boat on the hard at a marina isn’t free.  Plus you have to insure the boat too.   If you or your sailing partner have allergies, a boat like this will have hidden black mold and the interior cushions will all need to be replaced.
Some times the best deals are the ones you walk away from.

peter g

2000 C36, MK2, Hull. #1897
wonderful, wonderful, wonderful ! ! !.   5 th Catalina

 

 

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Waxing Moon
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Do not waste your money on a survey, which will only confirm that $11, 000 is a gigantic gamble.A survey will only uncover the major shortcomings that will be obvious That list will by no means be a complete list of the repairs that you will need to do. That boat on the hard is costing the owner a lot of money that his wife is probably furious about.  He would love to get rid of that albatross.  You, on the other hand, need to decide whether you want a two or three year project (or longer), or do you want a project that you can sail and work on at the same time.  You're probably looking at $50,000 in updating and repairing, plus the years out of the water.  Consider that even a newer boat is going to require your constant attention, and a constant outlay of cash to maintain.  It's a romantic idea that will most likely end up with you trying to unload that albatross.  Actually, there are a lot of boats out there whose owners kept up nicely and are selling due to a number of issues: nonuse, health, or aging, etc.
Sailboats are for sailing.  Get one that floats and doesn't need new everything. $50,000 to $60,000 will buy a much nicer and newer boat.Now, I realize that you may not have that kind of money laying around. Start saving!   I would get a survey on such a boat. 
Just my 8 cents.

Captain Moon
Waxing Moon
2002 C36 MK II #2105
Port Charlotte, FL

caprice 1050
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Posts: 345

I wouldn't hesitate to buy an old Catalina sailboat only if it is in good condition and being used regularly.  Last year I sailed my 1990 C-36, Caprice, to Cuba and had gust up to 38 mph with 12 foot waves in the Gulf of Mexico at night. The only problem we had was Sea Sickness. On the way home we did have a miner electrical problem that was quickly  found and repaired underway by the crew. If you do buy any sailboat change the the fuel filters and the oil and filters. If it is old replace the fuel tank or cleaned in addition to all the rigging lines and stays also everything else that does not look good.  I bought an old sailboat years ago that was sitting on the hard neglected for three years. I replaced the above and cleaned it up then sailed it for five years. Back then I was young and liked working on boats while having a beer or two.. Now that I am 81 and retired all I want to do is sail  my 1990 C-36 which is at my dock behind my house here in Florida. It is easy to maintain and sail single handedly.  Life is good.

 

__/)__/)__/)__Capt Mike__/)__/)__/)__
Punta Gorda Florida
1990 Std WK M35 Hull #1050

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BrentF
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Posts: 52

I have a '87  C36 tall rig so some experience with a boat of similar age.  Our Boats built back then had one big weakness and that was where the chainplates go through the deck.  Catalina just cut through the deck leaving the plywood coring next to the chainplate.  Lack of very vigilant maintenance resulted in water entering the deck core. Check the bulkheads beneath the chainplates, the leaking can compromise them as well.  big pain to replace.

So my first advice is to borrow or buy a fiberglass moisture meter.  I bought one out of canada for about $150.  works great once you teach yourself how to use it.  way cheaper than one failed survey.  when ever you look at any boat run the meter over the whole deck and watch the salesman or owner's face.  For the Catalina use the deck coring layout (I posted one on here a few years back) and write in your readings.  If there is moisture or delamination in the core you'll find it.  Be sure and do the cockpit sole around the pedestal as well.

I don't have a view on older / newer.  In the end you buy what you can afford and what you have time/skill to maintain or repair.

As far as upgrades cost I can say a new set of cruising sails set me back about $3200.  A new roller furler was $1200 plus labor (Harken had a great upgrade price).  A new headstay was around $500 including labor.  A new set of lifelines was around $600 if I remember right.  If you have access to a crane to pull the mast yourself you could order a new set of rigging pretty reasonably. figure on replacing most all of the electrical system.  Battery selector switch, batteries, battery cables, most of the light fixtures (the old plastic ones fall apart with age), charger, pumps. figure the water heater won't work and if they installed an electric fridge in the old icebox it probably didn't work very well when it was new.

you can roll new gelcoat mixed with non-skid over the old non-skid areas to spiff up the deck. cracks are a bigger pain to repair.  If the boat has been on the hard for years then the hull should be dried out and you can either peel the gelcoat on the bottom and then recoat or take your chances and epoxy barrier coat and hope the blisters don't come back.  

cushions can be a big expense but the rest of the interior can pretty much be cleaned up, revarnished or painted.  Just watch out for rot in the cabinetry. 

Other than that, if the engine and transmission are good all you really need to do is add all the cruising extras you want.

Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX

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KevinLenard
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Posts: 224

Project boats are all about the time and money.  This one is going to need tens of thousands (mentioned above at about $50k) to bring it up to top notch shape.  The '86 Cat 36 "Suzie Q", owned by a retired navy admiral and fitted out like a new boat, sold for about $50k USD three years ago and it was in ideal (like new) condition.  I fully updated a 1978 26' Mirage that had been somewhat neglected and it took me 5 summers of non-stop work every weekend (ALL weekends) and cost me maybe $15k in parts and materials.  This one is going to be an intense, long-term, labour of love.  He really should pay you to take it off his hands, or sell the motor alone for $5k and scrap the rest, sadly.  Many such boats go to single guys like I used to be while working on the '78 Mirage and become hobby projects lasting a decade or more. 

For perspective we ended up with a 1991 Cat 36 in good shape for $43k USD back in 2013 that had been on the hard for over a year.  We've put in another $20k in minor upgrades and fixes (new canvas, upholstery, alternator, water heater, electric head, etc.) and every year brings another $5k in desired and required upgrades and a many weekends of solid labour. 

Kevin Lenard
"Firefly"
'91 C-36 Mk. "1.5" Tall Rig, Fin Keel, Hull #1120, Universal M-35 original (not "A" or "B")
CBYC, Scarborough, Lake Ontario, Canada

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