Has anyone used the Spartite Mast Wedge Replacement System and if so was Kit 1 sufficient or was the larger Kit 2 needed.
Thank you,
—
Tony Cullen
s/v Sceptre
1995 C-36 MkII 1449 TR/FK
San Diego, CA. (Chula Vista Marina)
Has anyone used the Spartite Mast Wedge Replacement System and if so was Kit 1 sufficient or was the larger Kit 2 needed.
Thank you,
Tony Cullen
s/v Sceptre
1995 C-36 MkII 1449 TR/FK
San Diego, CA. (Chula Vista Marina)
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Tony
i found kit 1 more than enough be sure to use Vaseline everywhere the instructions say and don't be afraid to use it.
mike
Mike Hogan
s/v Ciscocat #226
Mark I XP25, std rig
Also, you might want to check out an article in the technical upgrades section written by one of the members a number of years back: "Spartite - 12 Hints for Installing" (I can't seem to get the link to work correctly, for some reason): www.catalina36.org/members/technical/upgrades/spartite-12-hints-installing
Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY
Thanks Mike & Matthew for your replies. I've heard from one that the mast should be tuned before pouring the Spartite and another said it should tuned after the Spartite has cured. It looks like Tom Sokos article would indicate centering and securing the mast before the pour and fine tuning later. Any input on that conundrum?
Thank you,
Tony Cullen
s/v Sceptre
1995 C-36 MkII 1449 TR/FK
San Diego, CA. (Chula Vista Marina)
Getting ready to do this myself - so I have been doing a lot of research on this. Here and on other forums.
Which is where I found a different product much cheaper and with similar properties. But more on that later.
The mast should certainly be centered in the partner before the application of the Spartite resin.
If you don't, it will be impossible to center afterwards because of the density of the plastic, which is about 55-60 on the D shore hardness scale for rubber and plastic (think roller blade wheels here.) The Flexane is a 97 on the A shore scale, which correlates to the 55-60 on the D.
To save money, I went with a different product than the Spartite. I bought two units for 75.00 delivered to the house. The tensile strength is different per psi, but I'm not that concerned.
Definitely use Vaseline on all surfaces - including the mast - because if you don't, you will rue the day if you ever try to pull the mast. The spartite will refuse. Based on my research this is all bad.
Here's what I bought after researching:
http://www.all-spec.com/products/15250.html?gclid=CN6W-aju0cACFcZQ7AodUF...
Mitch
1986 Catalina 36 MKI
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
On our boat, it's not so much that the partner is not centered as much as a slack rig results in the aft end of the mast actually resting on the aft end of the partner. With a properly statically tensioned rig (including pre-bend and rake) our mast comes off the partner and becomes more centered (although not exact) and ideally this is the point where wedging should done. Like Tom Sokoloski mentions, this is where he substituted wedges by block and tackle prior to pouring in the Spartite.
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor
Match man - the link is bad what was the product called so we can search on it?
Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX
Try this link:
http://www.waresdirect.com/products/Commercial-Products/Devcon/Flexane-9...
Pretty good overview of the product.
This is exactly what I purchased albeit I didn't pay this much.
I paid 73.48 delivered for two 1 lb. units.
Mitch
1986 Catalina 36 MKI
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
Here's a very brief update from my log on this project if anyone is interested in performing this upgrade on their mast/mast collar.
My mast boot was leaking like a screen door on a submarine.
In all this cost me about $60.00 and I found that my Milwaukee grinder and a pool noodle proved to be very helpful.
And don't forget the Play-Doh! (Or paper towels.)
Mitch
1986 Catalina 36 MKI
S/V "Blessing"
Kema, TX
Hull: #584
M25 w/ Oberdorfer Conversion
Thinking about Tony's conundrum question above and knowing this is probably a stupid question, but:
Why do I need to do this at all?
When I bought the boat it had no wedges and I've sailed for 5 years now without spartite or even wedges around the mast. It just kinda floats in the center of the hole.
What are the potential negative consequences of leaving the mast completely unwedged?
Ben Ethridge
Miami, FL
1984 MK1 Hull# 263
Three major reasons for wedging:
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor
Sorry, Nick, but thinking about the physics of this, that doesn't make sense to me. Where are you reading it?
Ben Ethridge
Miami, FL
1984 MK1 Hull# 263
Ben: Just taking a wild stab and thinking that the uneven pressure on the mast butt thing is where you don't have buy in. Here goes.....
Visualize a 10' solid round pipe 1" in diameter sitting exactly vertical on concrete floor with 100 pounds on the very top of it. The 100 pounds would be distributed over about 3/4 square inches of base. Now, tilt the pipe 45 degrees. The 100 pounds have not changed, but the contact area with the floor is no longer 3/4 square inches, so the 100 pound load becomes more concentrated in the remaining contact area. In engineering terms, this is called point loading and there are two primary ways this is dealt with:
Now, I know our masts don't tilt 45 degrees and are not rigid like a pipe. This was used to help visualize tilting of a base and obvious point loading. Point loading starts at anything past vertical and if not dealt with be transmitted to the mast heel, solid or hollow column. The amount of downward force on a mast base is roughly equal to the displacement of the boat, so point loading (if left unchecked) on a Catalina 36 can become 7 tons on just a portion of the wall thickness of the mast. Personally, I'd like that not to happen too often....
All of the downward force certainly makes it to the heel and all of the tilt tries to makes it to the heel too, but is counteracted along the way. This is point loading solution #1. The more correction you have along the way (like lowers and partners) the less point loading you'll get at the heel because you're adding rigidity, thus decreasing tilt, and thus decreasing point loading of the mast heel. This is the way that Catalina and US Spars (Charleston) have engineered our standing rigging.
Finally, solution #2 to point loading is to spread loads over a wide area. Selden certainly recognizes that point loading of the mast heel is to be avoided as they provide a convex attachment to their mast heel as a mitigation technique. Page 22, lower left hand corner, here: http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf.
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor
Thanks for the excellent explanation, Nick. The point loading concept makes sense.
The only thing I still don't see is why the downward pressure of the mast would be the same as the full displacement of the boat. Seems like it would only be the weight of the mast and the sails, plus the downward pressure of the standing and running rigging, yes? Granted, it's still a LOT of pressure on that single point...and worthy of eliminating the point loading with wedges or spartite or whatever.
Ben Ethridge
Miami, FL
1984 MK1 Hull# 263
The backstay, forestay and two cap shrouds are all 5/16" (8mm) and the breaking strength of each wire is 12,360 pounds. If you tighten all four to 20% of breaking strength (which is the upper end of the first static adjustment recommendations) then 4 X 2,472 pounds = 10,000 pounds of downward pull. You're at 70% of displacement already and all you've done is an initial tightening of 4 wires. Add in the downward pull of the forward lowers that you tightened to induce pre-bend, add in the weight of the mast, boom, rigging. Go tune for performance and you'll most certainly increase the backstay tension to remove forestay sag, perhaps creeping this up to 25% of breaking strength which increases the headstay tension to about 30% of breaking strength. Viola, you're likely close to boat displacement and you have not even added in the dynamic loads imposed by the halyards, sheets,and the not-too-insignificant load of the air on the sails.
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor
Makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation, Nick.
Ben Ethridge
Miami, FL
1984 MK1 Hull# 263