I have just made an accepted offer on a boat that I want to purchase.
It is a pristine 2004 C36 MKII.
I hope to have the survey, haul out, and sea trial next week.
My question is about the engine and rigging.
Since the boat appears to be very well taken care of with limited use, and only 80 hours on the engine, is it necessary to have separate inspections of the engine and rigging?
Blair
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Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA
Blair, what usually happens is you get a "boat" survey and a separate engine inspection. Low hours on a boat is not necessarily a good thing, the important issue is maintenance. Since the rest of the boat is in good shape, that's a helpful indicator, though. Here's an interesting thread I saved about what to look for: [url]http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=102541[/url]
Most important thing to do is to BE THERE when the survey and engine checkout happen. Next one: see if the PO has maintenance records.
Good luck, sounds sweet.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
I'd want both surveyed, and if the 'boat' surveyor didn't do a thorough job checking at least the lower rigging (turnbuckles, etc.), I'd get a rig survey too. Low hours on the engine could be a good thing, but I'd want to change things like the fresh water pump impeller, since it may have sat in one position for a long time. Here in the Mid Atlantic, proper winterizing is critical or you might be surprised by something unpleasant like a cracked heat exchanger.
Like Stu mentioned, I'd ask for maintenance records; but, if someone asked me, they'd be out of luck. I do all my own maintenance and rarely write anything down unless it's something major or out of the ordinary. Probably should, but....
The boat in the slip next to me is a Catalina/Morgan 38. Been there every summer since it was new, and I have NEVER seen it move. It might only have 4 hours on the engine, but I'd sure want a thorough survey before I'd buy it.
Best of luck; hope everything checks out clean and you enjoy your C36; great boats.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
My vote is Yes - definitely engine survey.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
Blair, congratulations on the pending purchase. I bought my "Pristine" 1994 a year ago in June. Since then I've found a lot of things that needed fixing and needed changing. I'd still buy her if I had it to do all over but I'd ask more questions. I had a very good surveyor and a separate rigging survey. and niether of them found anything major. But if I had it to do over, I would get to know the owner as best I could either in person or by phone and find out how, when, and if, he maintained the boat. No written records? Then I'd ask a bunch of questions, like when was the last time you changed: oil, oil filter, fuel filters (there are three!) engine belt, zincs, especially the "hidden" one in the heat exchanger. I found out almost too late that the belt was coming apart and probably hadn't been changed in a long time. I also discovered the "hidden" zinc, only after learning about it on this site. When I looked for it, it was gone (for how long??) My boat had these huge new AGM batteries, "the best" the owner and surveyor said. Only later I realized I had no way to charge them sufficiently when away from the dock. Solving that issue cost me $1,000 and uncounted hours of my own labor.
In summary, I wouldn't let such issues stop me from buying a boat that apprears in every other way sea worthy. But I would like to know what I needed to fix as soon as I took possession.
Good luck.
Sam
Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida
As part of the engine check, have a sample of the engine oil sent to a lab for analysis. I do this with my own engine annually. The purpose of the analysis is to identify issues before they become critical and the oil analysis can provide early warning of potential problems.
John Meyer
Hilbre
John Meyer
Hilbre
C36 MKll, Hull 2135
Cabrillo Marina, San Pedro, CA
survey it tomorrow.
going with general surveyor, engine surveyor, and rigger.
thanks.
Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA
OK, so how'd it go??
Capt. Sam Murphy
1994 Catalina 36, Hull 1327
Shoal draft, two cabin model.
Panama City, Florida
Sam,
Overall condition of the boat came back as excellent, but there were some issues that came up with the engine.
When engine cover was removed, I was a little surprised to see different colored exhaust manifold, heat exchanger, and both water pumps. A couple of the injectors may have been a different color too. Surveyor is under the impression these items may have been replaced.
I also noticed that it had a dripless shaft with the water source coming from the heat exchanger. The problem with that is that whoever did the install sourced the input for the water from the port where the sacrificial anode was. They removed the anode! ?????????????? Looks like some sleazy install to me.
I was later told that a less than reputable mechanic had worked at quite a few marinas in the area and had been replacing parts that didn't need to be replaced, and stealing parts from people. I heard this from multiple people, including the mechanic I hired to look at the engine. There may or may not have been anything wrong with it. The current owners said they had to take it to the local boatyard to have it put back together. Bizarre story.
Engine fired right up, but had a little bit of a vibration at lower rpm. Tachometer was reading between 600-1000 during the vibration, but went away when rpm was higher. Had two mechanics look at it, and hard to say what that issue was. Tachometer needle was kind of bouncing around a little bit, and hard to tell if it was operating properly. I'd like to see a mechanical tach on it. I think WOT was around 2800.
I believe there might be a an issue with the tach, but not sure about the vibration. The engine did not appear to be running rough, it was just vibrating at the lower rpm. I am inclined to believe that there is not anything seriously wrong here, and just more of an annoyance.
If the deal happens, I am definitely going to resource the dripless shaft, and replace the anode. I'm also going to try to find the source of this vibration. On this cursory look, mechanic seemed kind of stumped too, but says that he felt the engine was mounted very high on the motor mounts, which might be the source of this issue. Maybe someone here will have some ideas.
The rest of the boat was perfect.
Although the engine issue gave me a sleepless night, and quite a bit of time on the phone with experts, my hope is that this is a minor issue, and I am going to try to go ahead with this purchase.
As usual, I appreciate any and all input.
Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA
Blair,
Spend some time on this message board, and also on the C34 message board. The C34 and C36 share most, if not all, systems, and there have been many discussions on engine vibrations. Too low idle RPMs, worn out motor mounts, and mis-alignment are the three major causes, all easily fixed. Also, the vent for the PSS does not need a pressure feed. You only have to fasten the end of the hose at a spot well above the water level at all angles of heel. Also discussed many times on both message boards. Best of luck with the boat. One other thing. You now might want to join C36/375IA with a three year membership, and receive the free Tech Notes CD. It contains a TON of info, including all of the tech notes from Mainsheet Magazine going back to the introduction of the C36 in 1984.
Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT
Tom,
Thanks, I will spend more time reading after I take delivery.
I joined C36i last year, even before I starting looking for the boat.
I am taking another check to broker today. Hopefully the last one.
Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA
I would issue a strong warning to have any boat thoroughly inspected for your own protection. The better the deal, the more you should be concerned.
Boats can have problems that are not obvious.
This is not a buyers market, most of the good deals are gone. Keep a sharp eye for storm damaged boats masquerading as good deals. ;)
2000 C36 MKII 1825
KDY,
Can't say i agree with you on all points there.
This is the 5th boat I have bought in the last 10 years.
They were all good deals.
It is always a buyers market.
Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA