Headsail Help Needed

16 posts / 0 new
Last post
dejavu's picture
dejavu
Offline
Joined: 11/6/08
Posts: 433
Headsail Help Needed

So, the 50 MPH winds that hit Marina del Rey this past Sunday managed to somehow partially unfurl my headsail and proceed to rip it pretty badly. Because the sail is at least 16 years old, I've decided to buy a new sail rather than trying to repair it, so I need some advice. I'm not sure if it's a 135 or a 150, but I can drag it out and measure it. Since I have never bought a sail before, I'm thinking I should stay with a local sail loft rather than buy online. What do you think of that idea? UK has a loft nearby, what is the general opinion of UK sails? I mostly just day sail in the bay with the occasional Catalina trip, so I don't need a high tech racing sail. I am a bit lost in this process, so I would appreciate ANY opinions including other sailmakers I may not know about. You're help is appreciated.

Thanks, Mike

Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA

clennox's picture
clennox
Offline
Joined: 3/31/14
Posts: 212

Mike
Welcome to the club, we had 68 kts in Ventura and my sail is toast.
I'm going with a 135 up here in Ventura. If I was down your way I'd go with a 150. 155 if you race. Be sure to measure the bolt rope length. I found out that I have a tall rig and didn't even know it. The tall rig sail is 45ft 8 inches (Luff). Standard is 44ft**. My sail's foot measured 21.8Ft around a 140-142 sail.

On a side note: I don't know what I did wrong? The sail didn't unfurl. It just seem to suck the sail up high out? The clew and sheets were still intact and tight. Maybe I didn't have enough tension on the sail when I rolled it in.
Another side note: Super pain in butt to get sail off the furler. Had to cut sail up. If this happened at sea it would be a major problem.
I'm a big fan of Gary at Ullman sails Ventura. I sent you a PM.

Chuck Lennox
97 MKii Ventura Ca
Island Girl Hull #1611

Pelican
Offline
Joined: 9/21/15
Posts: 34

Hey Everyone,
I thought it was just us. Sorry to hear that others suffered the same head sail trauma we did. The winds came through Oceanside with sustained winds over 30 knots and gusting to 65 knots. Our roller furled 150% Genoa did not make it through the night. It too was rolled up OK with three wraps of the sheets snug around it. Furling line tight and tied off. We went to the marina that afternoon and made sure all was fit for the night. Like Island Girl, Pelican did not unfurl her head sail. It seems to have just slacked itself in the middle and set to tearing itself apart. Very difficult to get off the head stay. I too wonder what exactly happened, what I did wrong and how to prevent that from happening again. Maybe the collective knowledge here at the Forum can help explain. Our sail was 4 years old. I loved that sail. We are having the Elliott-Pattison loft make us a new one. 

 

Paul O,
S/V Pelican
1989 Catalina 36  Mk I  #894
Oceanside, California
 

Attachments
GaryB's picture
GaryB
Offline
Joined: 10/26/08
Posts: 570

Paul,
I'm curious, you mentioned you had the furling line tied off and 3 wraps around your genoa 3 times. Do you secure the genoa sheets as well?
I have the tendency to wrap my genoa tight by holding the genoa sheet as I furl it in. For the most part I dont take any wraps around the furled sail, but I do wrap both sheets 3 times around each  winch and cleat off. Basically this keeps forces in balance and opposed. I know this arrangement has survived up to 60 MPH gusts. Also I am on a mooring all the time and not tied to a dock, which could be a factor in your case.

Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine

Pelican
Offline
Joined: 9/21/15
Posts: 34

Hi Gary,
I would characterize the furling of the sail as pretty snug, but not quite as snug as I could have made it. Finished with three wraps of the sheets around the head stay. I think you are correct in suspecting the sheets not being tied off causing all the trouble. Under normal conditions we stow our sheets forward in a bag tied to the bow pulpit to keep the deck clear while we are in the slip. I think next time, for these conditions, I will keep the three wraps and rig the jib sheets to create tension against the furling line keeping the sail snug to the stay. I was quite confident the boat was ready for those winds. Lesson learned. 

Paul O,
S/V Pelican
1989 Catalina 36  Mk I  #894
Oceanside, California
 

dejavu's picture
dejavu
Offline
Joined: 11/6/08
Posts: 433

Got your PM, Chuck, and thanks. Mine was the same. Furling line secured, sail wrapped with a few turns of the jib sheets and secured. All I can say is "Duh". Mine was also so twisted it was hard to get down, complicated by the fact that the wind tweeked the extrusion to the point that it displaced a rivet so the swivel would only come down halfway. Had to have a rigger go up and clear it. Boats are so much fun. :-)

Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA

TomSoko's picture
TomSoko
Offline
Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 978

Mike,
You might want to also consider Mack Sails in FL. Our former commodore, Chic Lasser, is a rep for them. They REALLY know Catalinas. I bought a main from them recently. Very reasonably priced, well made, fit perfectly, and a beautiful shape. Just a thought.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

dejavu's picture
dejavu
Offline
Joined: 11/6/08
Posts: 433

Thanks Tom, good to know. Is it a problem dealing with someone so far away in case there is a problem with the fit?

Thanks, Mike

Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA

mutualfun's picture
mutualfun
Offline
Joined: 6/25/07
Posts: 454

National sail is one that we went with for a 135 head sail. Ordered it from Michigan and had it delivered to our daughter's  in Florida. Very pleased with it. Have a Mack 1main sail. 

Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.

TomSoko's picture
TomSoko
Offline
Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 978

Mike,
I'm not a sailmaker, but unless you have a very strange rigging configuration, the sail will fit.  Knowing if you have a std rig or tall rig, and what kind of roller furler will make the dimensions accurate within an inch or so.  I'd suggest talking to sailmakers and see what they say.  Catalina made 2306 C36's, so it's not as if you own a custom one-off boat!!!

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

bcam's picture
bcam
Offline
Joined: 6/29/07
Posts: 77

If you are in SoCal, call Harry at Elliott-Pattison. He has made many C36 sails. Including mine. Very good prices, great service.
945-645-6697
http://www.epsails.com/contact.htm 

Bruce Campbell
Evergreen Dreams #1409

knotdoneyet
Offline
Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 253

Strongly recommend a local loft.  You'll get a perfect fit.  They usually need some tweaking to get it just right.  I've seen some serious misses.

Good luck.
 

2000 C36 MKII 1825

GaryB's picture
GaryB
Offline
Joined: 10/26/08
Posts: 570

2 years ago I needed a new head sail and I bought a Rolly Tasker. I was more interested in price and had received several quotes locally as well as online. Sail Warehouse who advertises in Mainsheet also had another website they use which had a very attractive price. Ended up getting the sail from Sail Warehouse as he honored the same price on his alternate site.
Bottom line I was totally impressed with the quality of this sail and would recommend it to anyone.
 

Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine

Zefyros
Offline
Joined: 5/8/15
Posts: 13

Welcome Deja vu,
I have seen your beautiful vessel on the harbor in MDR.  Sorry to hear about your headsail.
I asked Harry from H2O sails go over my sails just a month ago.  He has been working on my sails for a few years now and the service is unbeatable. We discussed a new headsail and the size best fitted for a C36.  I have a Tall Rig and as much as I would have loved to have a 150, he strongly recommended a 130 to 135. I fly my 135 fully deployed, with one reef on the main, up to 25knts. A 150 would have to be rolled up above 15knts.  I also fly an A sail for those light wind days,  On the days that we go out just for going out, the 135, is just a pleasure to fly. Easier to tack, easier to gybe and it allows for much better visibility. Those kayakers seem to think that they are Megayachts :)
Happy sailing

Yianni Spiropoulos
Zefyros
1988 C36TR HULL # 896
Marina del Rey, CA

chic
Offline
Joined: 2/13/08
Posts: 88

Since my name was mentioned I'll chime in on this subject.  Buying locally has some advantages, someone to install sail for you, but that is about it.   If a major loft, ie, Doyle, Quantum, etc and your looking for a race sail they may be justified, since they know the local conditions.  On the other hand, since you own a Catalina and not a J Boat or some such boat you probably cruise your boat.  For cruising sails I see No Upside To over Spending with a major loft. National Sail Supply is another option but be fully aware they are Rolly Tasker Sails made offshore with cheap cloth.  CY stock sails are made offshore and I can tell you they sail like they where made in China. Don't be fooled by a Quantum or Doyle name on them, they were not made at your local loft, way too expensive for oem equipment they were made offshore most likely by RollyT asker As a sub contractor. 

On on the other hand, I can talk about Mack Sails as their Sales Rep.  All our sails are made in the USA in our Stuart Florida loft.  We only use Bainbridge Marblehead Premium Sailcloth, our jibs are 6.77 oz material and our mains are 7.62 oz..  Another difference is that our jibs are not cross cut like the others, but rather mitre cut.  This adds extra panels to the body of the jib, and since sewn on a mitre reduces stretch in the belly of the sail.  Translation, they last longer and hold there shape better. Yeah, more labor and material, but a much better sail.

Lastly, in addition to our Past Commodore Tom Soko I have sold a ton of sails to other C36 owners, and if you deal with me directly, I OFFER A C36 MEMBER DISCOUNT!!!  I would recommend you let me quote you on a sail or for that matter a Mack Pack or any other hardware since we sell everything from rigging to refrigeration.  I know you'll be pleasantly surprised that my price will be less than any competitor, and and the quality and product will be far more than your local loft.  Contact me offline at chiclasser1@yahoo.com

Chic Lasser
Past Commodore c36ia
Great Lakes Sails Rep Mack Sails and Rigging
585-703-6364

ssteakley's picture
ssteakley
Offline
Joined: 7/17/16
Posts: 52

But wait, what about avoiding the headsail unraveling in the first place? 
I feel our practice is good sinc we have survived more than a couple of hurricanes and tropical storms. 
We always take several long wraps with the jib sheet. The sheets then end up near the deck where we cleat them off to the bow cleats and coil the rest hanging on the bow pulpit. This clears the deck, no sheets to stumble over as you do other things on the deck. If winds are forecasted to be 60+ then it is prudent to remove the sail. The windage from high winds can snap the roller furling extrusion even if the sail does not unravel. This occurred to a close friend whose head sail survived IKE but the extrusion failed and he found that out at his next sail where he was offshore preparing for a race start.

 

Steve Steakley
SNOWBALL
​1998 C36 #1711
Seattle,WA
https://svwandrinstar.blogspot.com

Log in or register to post comments